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Home Depot Crew

Re: Home Depot Crew

Uncle Bob said:
Rick,And, all others that think that local building inspectors are required to enforce OSHA regulations, my part of this spitting contest; only refers to local building inspectors being required to enforce OSHA regulations; not, enforcement of adopted building codes.

Yes, we have regulations in the building codes that we enforce conserning saftey. My disagreement with Rick is that local building inspectors have no more authority to enforce OSHA regulations than a local cop has enforcing building codes.

The safety requirements of the codes are all we are charged with; not OSHA regulations.

Rick,

"You can issue a Stop Work Order and request things be brought into accordance with OSHA regulations and that an OSHA personnel has certified that it is compliant so that you may perform your work."

As a local building inspector; no, I can't! I cannot enforce OSHA regulations.

"YOU also have to follow OSHA regulations when inspecting."

No I don't; depending on what State I am working in;

"State and local government workers are excluded from Federal coverage under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (the "OSH Act")."

http://www.osha.gov/dcsp/osp/public_sector.html

OSHA AND Federal ADA requirements are Federal laws and regulations enforced by Federal laws and regulators; not local building inspectors.

You keep stating that local Building Inspectors; not only have a legal right, but, a legal resposibility to enforce OSHA regulations; and that is not true.

Uncle Bob
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Work not being performed in a Non-OSHA compliant manner is "...work being performed in a unsafe or dangerous manner...".

You have that authority to stop work because it is being performed in an unsafe manner. Not complying with OSHA is considered by LAW as "work being performed in an unsafe and dangerous manner". OSHA Regulations is the the regulation standard that defines safe occupational practices and how work is being performed safely.

Read Section 114 Stop Work Order (IBC 2009 -> Section 115)

Read Section 104.8 (In Oregon - review ORS 30.265) -> 104.8 Liability. See ORS 30.265 for regulations relating to liability.

Read 201.4

You have a responsibility to enforce / mandate OSHA compliance incidental to ensuring safety for you being able to perform your work. You may not enter a job site that will put your life at increased risk unless special circumstances require for inspecting a partially collapsed building for example. What does Section 114 say.

Stop Work Order:

114.1 Authority. Whenever the building official finds any

work regulated by this code being performed in a manner either

contrary to the provisions of this code or dangerous or unsafe,

the building official is authorized to issue a stop work order.

114.2 Issuance. The stop work order shall be in writing and shall

be given to the owner of the property involved, orto the owner's

agent, or to the person doing the work. Upon issuance of a stop

work order, the cited work shall immediately cease. The stop

work order shall state the reason for the order, and the conditions

under which the cited work will be permitted to resume.

114.3 Unlawful continuance. Any person who shall continue

any work after having been served with a stop work order,

except such work as that person is directed to perform to

remove a violation or unsafe condition, shall be subject to penalties

as prescribed by law.

Reason for Stop Work Order: Due to OSHA non-compliance creates an unsafe condition barring the code enforcement officer from being able to safely conduct code compliance inspection of construction work. Due to not being able to perform the code compliance inspection of construction work, there is potential code non-compliance. Therefore it is unsafe to allow construction work to continue.

Read this previous paragraph and think about the language. It probably can be improved but the point is - DUE to you not being able to perform your work in a safe environment to to non-OSHA compliance at work site. It puts you at unnecessary life-threatening risk. Since you may not perform your construction inspection for code compliance due to unsafe site conditions, you are issuing Stop Work Order due to potential non-code compliance and that it will endanger health, safety and welfare to allow construction to continue because code inspection for any code violation has not been performed.

You see how this can be done. Stop Work Order is because you can not perform the code inspection due to unsafe conditions such as unsafe work and dangerous work practices and non-OSHA compliance which places the site in a legally defined UNSAFE ENVIRONMENT. Due to not having completed the code inspection, there is potential risk of code violations that if construction is let to continue may not be resolved and potentially endanger the occupants in the future.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

Uncle Bob said:
No I don't; depending on what State I am working in;

States and Territories where State and Local Government Employees Are Not Covered by OSHA regulations

American Samoa, Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, District of Columbia, Delaware, Georgia, Guam, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Maine, Missouri, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Trust Territories of the Pacific, Texas, Wisconsin, West Virginia.

"State and local government workers are excluded from Federal coverage under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (the "OSH Act")."

http://www.osha.gov/dcsp/osp/public_sector.html

OSHA AND Federal ADA requirements are Federal laws and regulations enforced by Federal laws and regulators; not local building inspectors....
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In states that does not have OSHA coverage and have some sort of state based occupational safety regulation - then those state regulation applies instead of OSHA. But where OSHA compliance is a requirement at jobsites such as construction then OSHA applies.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

Uncle Bob said:
Good Grief! :roll: Uncle Bob
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Instead of OSHA, you can list whatever occupation safety standard that is adopted. Those listed state's equivalent to OSHA regulation.

Even if you don't have to comply with OSHA standards, the private w\sector workers do and if they violate, they put your safety at risk.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

Attorney: Why did you issue a Stop Work Order?

Inspector:The trench for installing the sewer did not have proper shoring per OSHA reqs.

Attorney:What type of inspection where you performing?

Inspector:Sheetrock.

Attorney:Was the installation of the sheetrock dangerous or unsafe?

Inspector:No it passed :oops:
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

mtlogcabin said:
Attorney: Why did you issue a Stop Work Order?Inspector:The trench for installing the sewer did not have proper shoring per OSHA reqs.

Attorney:What type of inspection where you performing?

Inspector:Sheetrock.

Attorney:Was the installation of the sheetrock dangerous or unsafe?

Inspector:No it passed :oops:
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That is if you performed the inspection. The point is determining if the site and the area of the inspection is safe to get to and be at. If it is unsafe, then you don't inspect. Therefore, when asked if the installation of sheetrock is dangerious or unsafe then the answer would be:

Inspector: I did not perform the inspection because the site or area in which the inspection was being performed appears to be unsafe due to other potential OSHA violation because of the one OSHA violation observed. The safety status of sheetrock is undetermined and if improperly installed can potentially injure a person.

A risk assessment is a part of the judgment call but if there is one OSHA violation, how many others is there? You make this assessment BEFORE you begin the actual inspection. You have to decide whether to go in deeper or to stop before hand. Inspection often involves more then just looking at sheet rock. I know if the one spot is in violation with OSHA, I would look around me to see any other OSHA violations. The sewer line might be inconsequential but it also maybe one of multiple violations so you decide whether to take the risk or not.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

To those who would endeavour to call out perceived OSHA violations I would offer these two comments; 1). Keep your resume up to date, and 2). Buy yourself a good errors and omissions liability insurance policy because your jurisdiction isn't going to be dumb enough to support quasi OSHA inspections.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

Min&Max said:
To those who would endeavour to call out perceived OSHA violations I would offer these two comments; 1). Keep your resume up to date, and 2). Buy yourself a good errors and omissions liability insurance policy because your jurisdiction isn't going to be dumb enough to support quasi OSHA inspections.
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You look to see if it is safe for you to do your work. If there is one OSHA violation, you stop inspection and issue Stop Work Order (unless you already completed the inspection before observing the violation) and you request they get an OSHA inspector to look over the site and the contractors bring site to compliance and then the OSHA inspector then certifies that it is safe and compliant and then you return and finish your job upon receiving notice that the site passes OSHA inspection.

If you spot a OSHA violation before you begin - something obvious like workers working without fall protection gear, hard hats not used where hard hat is required and other obvious things that is well published for consumer level. Then you say, "Hey, I'm not risking myself in an unsafe environment". There is a subjective risk assessment that you have to decide. You issue stop work order because you had not completed code inspection so they can't proceed any further. The OSHA violation is just an item that prompted a stop on code inspection for safety of yourself.

Things that prompt as an OSHA violation, unsafe use of tools such as nail guns, no hard hats when one is needed, no fall arrest gear, no hearing protection in an area of lots of noise and no eye protection gear. If you have any idea of what the work that has been going on and is going on on the site, then some obvious things should be expected.

Are you going to check a roof framing of a 12:12 pitch roof on a 5 story building without fall arrest protection? If you don't see such gear and if the gear that is present looks like it is worn and damage, are you going to risk yourself? I hope not.

The stop work order is because you did not complete code inspection because of potential risk to oneself. That is what I am talking about.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

Rick,

I am not going to enter into this discussion exept to say this: I guarantee that I would be fired in a minute if i did what you suggest.

And rightfully so.

GPE
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

I have no OSHA training and therefore have no knowledge of what constitutes an OSHA violation. My comfort level on a jobsite has no bearing at all on what is OSHA compliant. At one time I was perfectly comfortable walking 8" foundation walls or the plates of erected walls without fall protection but I have always been more than a little nervous about getting into deep trenches(5' or more) regardless of shoring.

If you are not OSHA certified and trained you have no business pretending that you are qualified to make OSHA related judgements.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

Min&Max said:
I have no OSHA training and therefore have no knowledge of what constitutes an OSHA violation. My comfort level on a jobsite has no bearing at all on what is OSHA compliant. At one time I was perfectly comfortable walking 8" foundation walls or the plates of erected walls without fall protection but I have always been more than a little nervous about getting into deep trenches(5' or more) regardless of shoring. If you are not OSHA certified and trained you have no business pretending that you are qualified to make OSHA related judgements.
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Ok, understandable. I was mainly referring to things you can issue can do to protect yourself from danger because a OSHA violation could endanger your well-being as it pertains to your work. You can't issue a fine citing a fine for each violation but can halt work because of unsafe and dangerous practices (which not complying with OSHA or similar regulations is) that endangers your well-being and the public. The Stop Work Order is because you have not completed/begun code compliance inspection and you can't allow work to continue if you haven't inspect yet. If the OSHA non-compliance puts you at risk. I wouldn't not stop doing an inspection because of a sewer line not being shored if I am inspecting the steel frame of an office building. Of course I might if there is no fall arrest gear, and other protective measures. You don't have to be entirely trained as an OSHA inspector to know some of this. There is a set of testing and training on Industrial & Construction safety which I had to take as part of the course requirements for the Historic Preservation & Restoration course.

Not following these basic safety measures can mean whether you live or you die. Imaging walking on an an 8 or 12" wide steel beam surface over 100-ft. from the ground surface without a fall protection trying to inspect the beam. One slip and you know what will likely happen. If there isn't that, then you don't want to do the inspection until that is complied with and as long as they don't want to comply, the later it will be before you'll perform inspection and longer the Stop Work Order is in place. Sure, politics gets in the way of safety especially when they will fire you for not doing the job at life-threatening risk. That is where I say, hazard pay or I sue for wrongful termination. It is criminal to be fired if they want you to endanger your life and requiring to place yourself in unsafe conditions without hazard pay bonus. Plus all back pay while you were terminated wrongfully. OSHA regulations are public domain knowledge and you don't have to be an OSHA inspector to know some of the obvious and well published OSHA violations. I even told you some of them. If you are inspecting a roof of a building without fall protection then YOU are not compliant with OSHA regulations. Very straight forward. If you see these common stuff then you can require that things be brought to compliance and certified by an OSHA inspector (who will cite and determine all the violations). You see one problem that impedes your job and you can give the contractors the metaphoric "finger" and say, "I am not doing this inspection until the work area is OSHA (or whatever your state's occupational safety regulation standards are) compliant and certified as compliant by an OSHA inspector and that there will be a Stop Work Order until you have completed your code compliance inspection so the workers don't continue work without you having performed your inspection.

This is not saying that you are going out to do an OSHA inspection but to make sure you have some basic safety matters addressed so that you can perform your work in a safe manner.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

So most of it is basic common sense. It doesn't take rocket science.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

incognito said:
We are talking about OSHA. Common sense is dead.
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Several common sense stuff is in the OSHA regulation even though like any other matters of politics including the building codes includes stuff that is not always common sense.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

This is the most ridiculous discussion I have seen on a building code website. I respect the comments made by Jeff and others regarding unofficially telling someone if they see something unsafe, and reporting it to the relevant authority.

However, for those of you who continue to beat this to death saying a city inspector has the obligation and/or authority to enforce OSHA rules, what part of "no we don't" do you not understand? There are a lot of smart people here, and every single one of them has correctly stated that we would be criminally beyond the scope of our authority to enforce OSHA law.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

The garage door header thread is 17 pages.

We're in the double bonus.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

If this discussion keeps you going, then answer the question regarding going up in a lift. If you go up in a lift, without training, without an employer provided harness (your employer), if you don't know wether or not you use Fall Restraint or Fall Arrest then you probably don't meet the OSHA's requirements. If you violate OSHA's requirements wether or not you are covered by an OSHA type regulation you may be violating the contractors responsibility for OSHA compliance at a multi-employer site.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

texasbo said:
This is the most ridiculous discussion I have seen on a building code website. I respect the comments made by Jeff and others regarding unofficially telling someone if they see something unsafe, and reporting it to the relevant authority.However, for those of you who continue to beat this to death saying a city inspector has the obligation and/or authority to enforce OSHA rules, what part of "no we don't" do you not understand? There are a lot of smart people here, and every single one of them has correctly stated that we would be criminally beyond the scope of our authority to enforce OSHA law.
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You aren't enforcing OSHA itself. You don't issue the Stop Work Order for OSHA violations. You issue Stop Work Order because you haven't completed inspections of structural and life-safety matters. The reasons that stopped you from completing maybe OSHA violations (or any other dangerous/unsafe conditions) that places your life at risk.

It is CRIMINAL for your employer (city counsel, mayor,city manager,ect. includes county government) to require you place your life at extreme risk of death in a dangerous and unsafe environment - except for if you are a fire-fighter or police officer or military. They can be potentially be charged for manslaughter or something in that degree which is serious.

You are checking to see if the site is safe (and some common and OSHA is a standard for determining some of the common safety matters. You are going to want to know if site is reasonably safe and that there isn't any obvious and serious violations that endangers your well being. Just like, you would want to be sure that you have a hard hat and fall arrest gear if you are going to be high off the ground that if you fall, you can be seriously injured or dead. You would expect some protective railing and stuff on open perimeters and openings in floors and stuff that you aren't just going to wall off to your demise. These are the things you would be wanting to see and safe use of tools, Hearing protection and eye protection and gloves as well. These are the things that you would want to be looking for before you go on the site and you don't want to be seeing serious things that endangers you. You are just making sure you are safe and the environment around you is safe before you get in and do your inspection.

Stop Work Order isn't about the serious and obvious OSHA violation(s) itself. It is that you have not completed inspection and potential serious code violations may exist. The OSHA violation(s) is only the reason that stopped the inspection and would be the conditions that needs to be corrected before you continue your code inspection.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

Every single person in this thread has tried to diplomatically tell you this, including myself, so now I'll just come out and say it: You don't know what you're talking about.

You can post as many long, rambling, disjointed diatribes as you wish, but the consensus will remain that you are wrong.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

texasbo said:
Every single person in this thread has tried to diplomatically tell you this, including myself, so now I'll just come out and say it: You don't know what you're talking about. You can post as many long, rambling, disjointed diatribes as you wish, but the consensus will remain that you are wrong.
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Ask your attorney if the city government may require you to conduct your inspection on a site that has serious OSHA violations that presents a high risk to your life. Ask your attorney if you can issue a Stop Work Order if you were unable to finish inspections (because of such serious OSHA violations as indicated above) on life safety and structural matters because there maybe code violations.

What does code define as unsafe and dangerous conditions in the administrative section governing Stop Work Order.

You are not enforcing OSHA because you are not issuing fines for OSHA violations. You simply report what you saw as a complaint like any other person to OSHA and you simply stop your code inspection for safeguard your health and welfare.

Issuing a Stop Work Order would be because YOU have not finished inspections. Of course, if you did finish inspecting all structural and life safety systems then a Stop Work Order wouldn't be issued. Allowing work to continue on site because there are uninspected items that may have code violations and that alone would pose a risk to life, safety and welfare of the public and occupants because YOU have NOT finished such inspection because of dangerous and unsafe conditions not governed under the building codes and those conditions are reported to the appropriate authorities in charge to be addressed and certified to be in compliance before you return.
 
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