new fire station: domestic or commercial kitchen exhuast required

[cda]

Should be there

Going to be the local

“””gendarmes“””

 

[mark handler]

Should be there

Going to be the local

“””gendarmes“””

?

 

[cda]

?

This will be up to the local ahj

 

[tmurray]

Our code provides requirements based on the type of equipment chosen. Commercial cooking equipment requires commercial exhaust and suppression systems.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

Thanks for all the input from everyone here. If the client decides to install the preferred commercial stove we will install a type 1 hood with fire suppression. We are going to recommend that they install a high end ‘restaurant quality’ residential stove and then provide a residential hood with fire suppression.

 

[ADAguy]

He "gets" it, hopefully so will the AHJ and the department, it is also a risk management issue.
Given the variety of menues all types of cooking, in large quantities will be produced.
How many does the dorm support?

 

[Builder Bob]

maybe the design of the commercial parking garage separated by a four hour fire wall to have a dwelling unit would allow several benefits - No sprinkler system for garage, the dwelling unit area could be protected by NFPA 13 R, and a hybrid guardian or denlar residential system with suppression and interconnection to electrical or gas shut off.

Not a full blown commercial grade type I hood system with fire suppression but a stouter residential hood system with fire suppression features.

 

[ADAguy]

The key word at the beginning of this thread is "get away with", why? As a % of total construction cost how much are you saving by "Getting away with" vs. doing it right?

 

[tmurray]

The key word at the beginning of this thread is "get away with", why? As a % of total construction cost how much are you saving by "Getting away with" vs. doing it right?

I don't read too much into this statement. My contractors use it all the time around here, usually when they've run into a problem and call us out to have a look at it with them. The "what can I get away with" means "what does the code require? I want to build it right and safe, but don't want to unnecessarily waste my clients money". I feel like it was used with similar intentions here.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

maybe the design of the commercial parking garage separated by a four hour fire wall to have a dwelling unit would allow several benefits - No sprinkler system for garage, the dwelling unit area could be protected by NFPA 13 R, and a hybrid guardian or denlar residential system with suppression and interconnection to electrical or gas shut off.

A sprinkler system is required throughout buildings where buildings are used for storage of commercial trucks where the fire area exceeds 5,000 sq ft.

 

[Builder Bob]

Most fire stations (not headquarters) are only two bay affairs with less than 5000 SF.

 

[VillageInspector]

As a retired career firefighter currently code enforcement officer I would require a commercial hood and suppression system over a commercial stove as I required in our volunteer house in my jurisdiction. End of story.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Most fire stations (not headquarters) are only two bay affairs with less than 5000 SF.

Maybe in your area. Never saw one that small.

 

[steveray]

Maybe in your area. Never saw one that small.

Garagemahall?

 

[Builder Bob]

City of Florence Station # 5 for example

 

[steveray]

Around here our FD's do fundraiser pancake breakfasts and clambakes and pasta dinners so.......PUT THE HOOD IN.....

https://www.operationwarm.org/blog/...ng-alternatives-to-boot-fundraising-part-one/

 

[ADAguy]

Are we all now agreed? Do it right and install a commercial hood and Ansul system.

 

[cda]

This is the United States of America !!


There are 325 million opinions on this

 

[HForester]

For what it's worth:

From the 2015 IMC Commentary for Section 507.2:

"Some common scenarios that come up are the type of hoods that are required in a life science classroom in a high school (i.e., a classroom used to teach, among other things, cooking to students) and the type of hood required over a cooking appliance(s) in a fire station. In both cases, the type of cooking is the deciding factor on the type of hood required."....

"In the case of a kitchen located in a fire station, once again it depends on the type of cooking and the intended use of the facility. Meals prepared in a kitchen in a fire station that has a residential-type range/oven that is only intended to be used to prepare meals for the fire fighters on that particular shift is similar, if not the same, as those prepared in a home environment. As such, the same byproducts that are produced in a kitchen in a dwelling unit would be produced in the kitchen in the fire station. Based on the residential style of cooking that is being performed, it would seem appropriate that the same type of hood installed in a residential dwelling could be installed or, in a case where the space meets its ventilation requirements in Chapter 4 of the code, no hood at all.
 It is not uncommon, however, for fire stations to have a community room with a kitchen used for preparing meals. The community room is often used to hold fund-raising events, such as spaghetti dinners, fish fries or pancake breakfasts, or used by members of the community for special events, such as parties or weddings. The kitchen may or may not have commercial cooking appliances installed. In this case, it would appear that such a situation is intended for the preparation of food for revenue generation. In this case, a Type I or II hood is required based on the cooking operations that are performed under the hood. This would also apply to VFW and other fraternal organizations, church assembly halls and other similar halls."

 

[JCraver]

For what it's worth:

From the 2015 IMC Commentary for Section 507.2:

"Some common scenarios that come up are the type of hoods that are required in a life science classroom in a high school (i.e., a classroom used to teach, among other things, cooking to students) and the type of hood required over a cooking appliance(s) in a fire station. In both cases, the type of cooking is the deciding factor on the type of hood required."....

"In the case of a kitchen located in a fire station, once again it depends on the type of cooking and the intended use of the facility. Meals prepared in a kitchen in a fire station that has a residential-type range/oven that is only intended to be used to prepare meals for the fire fighters on that particular shift is similar, if not the same, as those prepared in a home environment. As such, the same byproducts that are produced in a kitchen in a dwelling unit would be produced in the kitchen in the fire station. Based on the residential style of cooking that is being performed, it would seem appropriate that the same type of hood installed in a residential dwelling could be installed or, in a case where the space meets its ventilation requirements in Chapter 4 of the code, no hood at all.
 It is not uncommon, however, for fire stations to have a community room with a kitchen used for preparing meals. The community room is often used to hold fund-raising events, such as spaghetti dinners, fish fries or pancake breakfasts, or used by members of the community for special events, such as parties or weddings. The kitchen may or may not have commercial cooking appliances installed. In this case, it would appear that such a situation is intended for the preparation of food for revenue generation. In this case, a Type I or II hood is required based on the cooking operations that are performed under the hood. This would also apply to VFW and other fraternal organizations, church assembly halls and other similar halls."

Absolutely right. Which is why I said this way back on page 1:

<snip> if they installed all listed residential appliances, even the really high end ones that are almost commercial, they could use a residential hood and skip the suppression.

 

[mark handler]

Commercial appliances; commercial hood.

 

[HForester]

Commercial appliance = Commercial hood is too simplistic.

JCraver quoted (and underlined) the IMC Commentary:

"In both cases, the type of cooking is the deciding factor on the type of hood required."....

Note that the commentary states just before that:

"The kitchen may or may not have commercial cooking appliances installed."

In other words, someone can have a residential range doing commercial cooking...Commercial hood would be required.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

And then there is this:

2009 IMC 917.2 Prohibited location. Cooking appliances designed, tested an labeled for the use in commercial occupancies shall not be installed within dwelling units or within any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

2009 IMC 917.3 Domestic appliances. Cooking appliances installed within dwelling units and within areas where domestic cooking operations occur shall be listed and labeled as household-type appliances for domestic use.

So you could not have a commercial stove in this fire house anyway if only used for domestic use. So no commercial exhaust required.

 

[rgrace]

And then there is this:

2009 IMC 917.2 Prohibited location. Cooking appliances designed, tested an labeled for the use in commercial occupancies shall not be installed within dwelling units or within any area where domestic cooking operations occur.

2009 IMC 917.3 Domestic appliances. Cooking appliances installed within dwelling units and within areas where domestic cooking operations occur shall be listed and labeled as household-type appliances for domestic use.

So you could not have a commercial stove in this fire house anyway if only used for domestic use. So no commercial exhaust required.

Echoes what was said in post #17