conarb
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
-
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Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
- Thread starter jar546
- Start date
beach
Gold Member
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
As I stated, the code allows CPVC under specific conditions......
Regarding the windows, I believe the code specifically requires TEMPERED glazing, I don't have my code in front of me, but I believe, due to the heat tempering of tempered glass resulting in excellent performance (cracking/shattering) under intense heat, that laminated glass would not be acceptable. I do not know how laminated glass performs under intense heat as compared to tempered. Interesting to find out....
Edit:
A
As I stated, the code allows CPVC under specific conditions......
Regarding the windows, I believe the code specifically requires TEMPERED glazing, I don't have my code in front of me, but I believe, due to the heat tempering of tempered glass resulting in excellent performance (cracking/shattering) under intense heat, that laminated glass would not be acceptable. I do not know how laminated glass performs under intense heat as compared to tempered. Interesting to find out....
If the home is in a WUI and you increased the gross floor area (unless you met the exception), you should have been required to sprinkler the home per your municipal code, which does not appear to be ambiguous to me. The WUI sprinkler requirement is separate from the general sprinkler ordinance you highlighted which could possibly be construed as ambiguous.
Edit:
Actually, reading it again, it's very clear and not ambiguous at all. Need to ask the Fire Marshal what he was thinking.....
A
conarb
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
beach
Gold Member
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
I believe the wording "Shall" requires the BO to authorize the use of CPVC, if the wording was "May" then the BO would have a choice, correct? (BTW, I'm not a fan of CPVC, I'm just reading and interpreting what's in the code.)
You used the wrong code section for the glazing requirement......
I'm trying to save you a lot of money and possibly lawsuits......the requirement for tempered glazing in a WUI area is in chapter 7A of the 2007 CBC (Materials and Construction Methods for Exterior Wildfire Exposure) the requirement isn't based on personal safety, it's based on fire protection. While it's very possible that your laminated safety glazing may be tested and approved per NFPA 257 or 2007 CBC section 715 or conform to the performance requirements of SFM 12-7A-2 as required by CBC section 704A.3.2.2, I would hate to see you install your triple glazed, laminated glass windows and get shot down by a very thorough inspector......Again, I strongly urge you to read section 7A BEFORE you build, it covers exterior door requirements, vent placement, glazing, decking, eaves, roofing, etc. It's not an option to harden your home in a WUI, it's a requirement in California.
FYI, every builder around here uses tempered glazing, I don't know if it's because laminated does not meet the standards or not.
Edit:
Here is a laminated glass product that meets the requirements, the manufacturer is local to you. I'd be curious as to the cost versus standard tempered glazing. http://products.construction.com/Manufa ... NST37062-P
You quoted the use of "PVC" not "CPVC"
I believe the wording "Shall" requires the BO to authorize the use of CPVC, if the wording was "May" then the BO would have a choice, correct? (BTW, I'm not a fan of CPVC, I'm just reading and interpreting what's in the code.)
You used the wrong code section for the glazing requirement......
I'm trying to save you a lot of money and possibly lawsuits......the requirement for tempered glazing in a WUI area is in chapter 7A of the 2007 CBC (Materials and Construction Methods for Exterior Wildfire Exposure) the requirement isn't based on personal safety, it's based on fire protection. While it's very possible that your laminated safety glazing may be tested and approved per NFPA 257 or 2007 CBC section 715 or conform to the performance requirements of SFM 12-7A-2 as required by CBC section 704A.3.2.2, I would hate to see you install your triple glazed, laminated glass windows and get shot down by a very thorough inspector......Again, I strongly urge you to read section 7A BEFORE you build, it covers exterior door requirements, vent placement, glazing, decking, eaves, roofing, etc. It's not an option to harden your home in a WUI, it's a requirement in California.
FYI, every builder around here uses tempered glazing, I don't know if it's because laminated does not meet the standards or not.
Edit:
Here is a laminated glass product that meets the requirements, the manufacturer is local to you. I'd be curious as to the cost versus standard tempered glazing. http://products.construction.com/Manufa ... NST37062-P
Gene Boecker
Gold Member
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
I have a solution. . . .
. . . move out of California!
:lol:
I have a solution. . . .
. . . move out of California!
:lol:
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
I'm trying to save you a lot of money and possibly lawsuits......
Beach,
Why would you want to save this guy a dime? I'm tired of reading his conspiracy theorys and the wacked-out rules of the land of fruits and nuts.
Truth, in 2008 there were:
2,755 civilian fire deaths in homes
120 civilian fire deaths in non-residential structures
We've been protecting (sprinklers) non-residential structures for over a 100 years and look at the deaths. It's high time residential structures got the same treatment.
Also an interesting fact I read.
Since 1917 there have been more residential fire deaths in the US than the total US deaths in the 7 major wars fought, combined. (WWI, WWII, Korean, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan)
I'm trying to save you a lot of money and possibly lawsuits......
Beach,
Why would you want to save this guy a dime? I'm tired of reading his conspiracy theorys and the wacked-out rules of the land of fruits and nuts.
Truth, in 2008 there were:
2,755 civilian fire deaths in homes
120 civilian fire deaths in non-residential structures
We've been protecting (sprinklers) non-residential structures for over a 100 years and look at the deaths. It's high time residential structures got the same treatment.
Also an interesting fact I read.
Since 1917 there have been more residential fire deaths in the US than the total US deaths in the 7 major wars fought, combined. (WWI, WWII, Korean, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afghanistan)
JBI
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Now if they could just find a way to stay out of bankruptcy court... :roll: :lol:
Now if they could just find a way to stay out of bankruptcy court... :roll: :lol:
beach
Gold Member
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Yeah, we're broke....everybody needs to move to another state so I can have the beach to myself!!!
BigTex: Conarbs bark is worse than his bite. Ultimately, the home he is (supposedly) building for those people should be built to WUI code. He talked the homeowner and supposedly the Fire Marshal out of fire sprinklers that are clearly required by code, if the home gets devastated by wildfire, I'm sure the homeowner and insurance company will sue him if he's still around. The homeowner deserves a home hardened from fire by code, not by "Dampered vents", regular laminated glass, no sprinklers, and other untested construction methods.
Yeah, we're broke....everybody needs to move to another state so I can have the beach to myself!!!
BigTex: Conarbs bark is worse than his bite. Ultimately, the home he is (supposedly) building for those people should be built to WUI code. He talked the homeowner and supposedly the Fire Marshal out of fire sprinklers that are clearly required by code, if the home gets devastated by wildfire, I'm sure the homeowner and insurance company will sue him if he's still around. The homeowner deserves a home hardened from fire by code, not by "Dampered vents", regular laminated glass, no sprinklers, and other untested construction methods.
conarb
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
War is hell, someone once said.
I just found it interesting that more US civilians have died in residential fire than all of the wars during the same time period.
People are always complaining about war, but more have died (for no reason) here at home.
If you want facts about residential sprinklers saving lives, I suggest you look up Scottsdale, AZ and Prince George's County, MD.
War is hell, someone once said.
I just found it interesting that more US civilians have died in residential fire than all of the wars during the same time period.
People are always complaining about war, but more have died (for no reason) here at home.
If you want facts about residential sprinklers saving lives, I suggest you look up Scottsdale, AZ and Prince George's County, MD.
conarb
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Keep drinking the purple kool-aid. :shock:
Ever hear of a backflow perventor?
Anti-Freeze systems have been around for a long time. My 1961 NBFU No.13 (now know as NFPA 13) has the requirements for Anti-Freeze systems.
How about an anti-freeze system piped with CPVC...........
Oh the horror..............
Keep drinking the purple kool-aid. :shock:
Ever hear of a backflow perventor?
Anti-Freeze systems have been around for a long time. My 1961 NBFU No.13 (now know as NFPA 13) has the requirements for Anti-Freeze systems.
How about an anti-freeze system piped with CPVC...........
Oh the horror..............
JBI
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
I thought this thread was about Pennsylvania and the 2009 I Codes... :roll:
I thought this thread was about Pennsylvania and the 2009 I Codes... :roll:
conarb
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
beach
Gold Member
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Freezing temps and sprinkler piping would have the same issue as the potable water pipes. Nobody puts antifreeze in their potable water...so how do they keep it from freezing? I remember the supposed horror stories from the anti sprinkler advocates "If I'm away from home and my heater is off and we have a freeze, my fire sprinkler lines will burst and flood the house!!!!!" So will your potable water lines! Anybody that has ever had a weekend cabin in the mountains knows what to do........hint:13D systems are for saving lives.....
Freezing temps and sprinkler piping would have the same issue as the potable water pipes. Nobody puts antifreeze in their potable water...so how do they keep it from freezing? I remember the supposed horror stories from the anti sprinkler advocates "If I'm away from home and my heater is off and we have a freeze, my fire sprinkler lines will burst and flood the house!!!!!" So will your potable water lines! Anybody that has ever had a weekend cabin in the mountains knows what to do........hint:13D systems are for saving lives.....
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
John,
It was.
Conarb,
Common sense?
You wouldn't/couldn't use anti-freeze in a multi-purpose 13D system, different animal. It would be a regular 13D system with it's own water supply, charged with anti-freeze. It's done all the time and works fine.
John,
It was.
Conarb,
Common sense?
You wouldn't/couldn't use anti-freeze in a multi-purpose 13D system, different animal. It would be a regular 13D system with it's own water supply, charged with anti-freeze. It's done all the time and works fine.
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Just finished a continuing education class for my Texas state plumbing inspectors license and the State is looking ar requiring two separate systems on residential structures that are installing fire sprinklers.conarb said:
conarb
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Conarb,
It's obvious this FM doesn't know squat about residential fire systems. 8,000 gallons of water? A standpipe?
Most only require about 300 to 400 gallons. Remember, you only need 10 minutes of water supply.
But, once again, ya'll do funny things on the left coast that common sense would dictate otherwise.
Conarb,
It's obvious this FM doesn't know squat about residential fire systems. 8,000 gallons of water? A standpipe?
Most only require about 300 to 400 gallons. Remember, you only need 10 minutes of water supply.
But, once again, ya'll do funny things on the left coast that common sense would dictate otherwise.
conarb
Registered User
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Taken down at Marshal Burns request.
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
Have no idea! This is just what the instructor said and he is or should I say he thinks he is the main conduit between the plumbing world and the State. According to him..if he says it going to rain...you better get an umbrella!
Have no idea! This is just what the instructor said and he is or should I say he thinks he is the main conduit between the plumbing world and the State. According to him..if he says it going to rain...you better get an umbrella!
Re: Pennsylvania wants to skip the 2009 codes
In NFPA 13D there is no requirement to keep the system flushed. Water purveyor smoke-and-mirrors?
Conarb,
WOW is all I got to say about those requirements. I wonder who dreamed all those up?
It's no wonder to me now, why things in California cost so damn much. And it still burns up every couple of years.
Those requirements should be called a 13CC system. (Crazy California)
I the real world, 400 gallon tank in the basement, a pump and your done, plain and simple and per the Code.
In NFPA 13D there is no requirement to keep the system flushed. Water purveyor smoke-and-mirrors?
Conarb,
WOW is all I got to say about those requirements. I wonder who dreamed all those up?
It's no wonder to me now, why things in California cost so damn much. And it still burns up every couple of years.
Those requirements should be called a 13CC system. (Crazy California)
I the real world, 400 gallon tank in the basement, a pump and your done, plain and simple and per the Code.