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Please check my ADA restroom layout

Are you licensed? is there a licensed person involve in this project?
I am the business owner of the cafe where this restroom is to be built. I do have experience with commercial construction (industrial). But haven't had to deal with ADA before.

Don't worry, I will be retaining an architect to review everything prior to construction. However, I need to plan our space beforehand so I know what we can do with the limited space available. This is just part of my pre-planning research. I want to ensure I understand the applicable codes.
 
I am my own client. So I won't be changing anything after the design is approved. That said, I can add a little safety margin to avoid some jerk with a micrometer.How much of a safety margin is recommended? One inch? Two inches?
You are not doing yourself any favors.
Just like an Attorney representing himself, a fool for a client.
 
Strongly "suggest" you visit the Access Boards website for relevant info.
As an owner of a public accommodation you are required to be compliant with the ADA and code.
See ADASAD (Standards for accessible design).
Also, your local building department may have some handouts and if you Google ADA restroom "images" you will see many examples with dimensions.

Be thankful you are not in California or Scott Johnson will be looking for you.
 
If the door leaf is no more than 2" thick, why wouldn't a 34" door meet the 32" clear width requirement?
A door is typically 1-3/4” thick. The stop on the latch side is about 3/8”, and the hinge may hold the door off the frame by as much as 1/2”. This is over 2”, so a 34-inch-wide door will not provide the clear width.
 
You might be able to use a “swing-clear” hinge that will remove the door from the equation and provide a clear width between the stops.
 
ML, permits are required in your community, no?
If so, than this should all come up during plan check.
 
I think he is trying to get ahead of the game and also figure what this might cost him
 
You are not doing yourself any favors.
Just like an Attorney representing himself, a fool for a client.
I'd rather be an educated fool than an ignorant one. As I said, we will hire an architect and professional contractor to build out the space. But I'm a firm believer in knowing as much as I can instead of just relying on others to make decisions for me.

Since you raised the topic of an attorney representing himself, I'll share a little story...

Years ago, I was sued by a former business partner who wanted to renege on a deal we had both agreed to. I had agreed to take some excess inventory she had been unable to sell, and liquidate it on commission; after the sale, I was to pay her a percentage of the net. She had planned to simply throw it all away and she didn't expect me to get much, if anything, for it. After some months of work, I sold the lot for over $100K. Suddenly, she decided she wanted ALL the money from the sale. As in, she wanted to take 100% and leave me with zero. After I paid her the agreed percentage, she filed a lawsuit alleging I had stolen the merchandise from her and sold it without her consent. I retained a "respected" local law firm and paid a hefty retainer. Instead of filing a motion to have the case dismissed, the lawyer "answered" the suit (which basically told the court that the suit was valid, but that we would contest it). After the law firm burned through $10K of my money doing nothing but filing some paperwork and showing up for a couple of administrative hearings, I had had enough. I went to the local law library and spend many hours learning the law. I discovered that a demurrer could have been filed to have the lawsuit tossed out from the start without going through months of discovery and litigation (and hundreds of thousands in legal fees). Surely, the lawyer must have know this. But litigation is big money. So I fired my attorney and represented myself in court. And I prevailed in just two hearings: I got the lawsuit dismissed. Nightmare ended. True story.

Not bad for a fool client, eh?

Edit: The purpose for relaying this story was not to brag or pat myself on the back. Frankly, it was a miserable experience that caused me great angst and loss of time and money over the course of a year. But the point I was trying to make is that it's not always wise to blindly trust the "licensed professional." The more you know, the better you can assist in the process when you have a good guy on your side, and the better you can protect yourself when you have a bad guy.
 
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A door is typically 1-3/4” thick. The stop on the latch side is about 3/8”, and the hinge may hold the door off the frame by as much as 1/2”. This is over 2”, so a 34-inch-wide door will not provide the clear width.
Thank you for this clear explanation.

You might be able to use a “swing-clear” hinge that will remove the door from the equation and provide a clear width between the stops.
I think I'll just go with a 36" door. That will also give me an added "margin of safety" to avoid a lawsuit as mentioned earlier.

Knowing the absolute code minimum doesn't mean we have to build it to the absolute code minimum. But it does set the baseline so we know what the starting point is.
 
I appreciate your interest and diligence. As ADA guy said, this stuff should come up in plan check, but because you are trying to inform yourself, it will hopefully reduce the shock and additional submittals to get it right. Your DP will hopefully recognize these issues as well. IMHO, like many codes, accessibility requirements can be difficult to understand, so a collaborative effort is needed from the owner, DP, plan checker, contractor........... and forums like this. I applaud your effort to proactively find out where you stand.
 
I appreciate your interest and diligence. As ADA guy said, this stuff should come up in plan check, but because you are trying to inform yourself, it will hopefully reduce the shock and additional submittals to get it right. Your DP will hopefully recognize these issues as well. IMHO, like many codes, accessibility requirements can be difficult to understand, so a collaborative effort is needed from the owner, DP, plan checker, contractor........... and forums like this. I applaud your effort to proactively find out where you stand.
Thank you. I hope I'm not appearing to be a know-it-all. The reason I'm here is because I'm certainly not, especially when it comes to ADA requirements. Any time there's government regulations and legal ramifications, the issue is complex and challenging. My reason for asking all the questions is not to challenge the professionals here, but for me to get a deeper understanding of how all these various requirements fit together.

Often, one doesn't know what one don't know. Before coming here, I had done a lot of research on restroom-specific ADA requirements, but I've since discovered that I completely missed the additional ADA door entry requirements. This forum has been of great assistance in learning what I don't know and educating me on the codes.

I hope my posts will also help others who, like me, want to get a better understanding of these issues.
 
A door is typically 1-3/4” thick. The stop on the latch side is about 3/8”, and the hinge may hold the door off the frame by as much as 1/2”. This is over 2”, so a 34-inch-wide door will not provide the clear width.

Ron beat me to it, lol :)
 
As they always say, "Buyer be "aware" before you transact.
Welcome and thank you for providing clearer questions (with supporting) data then many
who seek out the forum to ask questions.
We are here to help.
 
Welcome. We are here to help.
Thank you. It's always a pleasure to pick the brains of knowledgeable professionals.

and thank you for providing clearer questions (with supporting) data then many
who seek out the forum to ask questions.
That would be either my mechanical engineering background or my US Navy service background. Likely both. :cool:
 
That said said:
Bar on long side of toilet, short side is behind the toilet

4-inches on hinge side was referenced from Fig. 604.9.3.1, Toilet compartment doors, ICC/ANSI A117.1

This 4-inch requirement may not be applicable on your design, it is for partitions.
 
Hello forum
this thread has been extremely helpful because I'm designing an almost simuliar layout for a customer.
Questions
1.So was his final design acceptable?

Only difference is my rough framing is 63 inches wide and 9ft 3"long
but same layout of wallmount toilet,sink and door placement

2.Is 63 inches to narrow if the 60inch circle goes under the grab bar?
63 rough allows for 1inch total of sheetrock and tile per side making it finish at 61"

I made the room longer because I thougtht the 60inch circle was not allowed under the sink according to another site?
only thing the circle goes under at the moment is the grab bar
All this is very confusing but luckily I can move walls if need be

thanks for your help
jim
 
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