Pool Closed Until Further Notice

[conarb]

There is a difference between actively discriminating against a suspect class, and just not taking affirmative action in favor of one. A popular comic strip has been highlighting the discrimination against Asians in our elite college systems.

View attachment 1247In today's paper

another one.
​

Our major universities discriminating against a non-suspect class to make room for less-qualified suspect classes is evil active discrimination for social engineering purposes, much diifferent from a hotel not knowing about a law favoring suspect classes and not moving forward to accomodate them in compliance with the law.

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[mark handler]

If is not readily achievable to immediately provide an accessible means of entry and exit at every pool, then the entity must remove barriers to the extent that it is readily achievable to do so. It is important to note that the barrier removal obligation is a continuing one, and it is expected that a business will take steps to improve accessibility over time.

.... .

 

[mtlogcabin]

The DOJ must realize there will be a problem for facilities to change from portable lifts to permanently installed lifts

Dear Official,

Yesterday, Thursday, March 15, 2012, the Department of Justice (DOJ) issued a press release stating that the deadline for pool and spa compliance with the American with Disabilities Act will be extended for 60 days. This means that at a minimum, the compliance date has been extended until May 19, 2012. The DOJ is requesting comments as to whether to further extend the compliance date until September 17, 2012 to allow additional time to address misunderstandings made known to them regarding compliance with these ADA requirements.

It is not clear whether the DOJ will accept and consider comments on the actual requirements, or only on whether further deadline extension is needed. APSP will continue to monitor the situation and provide instructions for commenting once the official notice is posted in the Federal Register on March 20, 2012.

In the meantime, APSP members can access the DOJ’s Technical Assistance Document, the ADA’s 2010 Accessibility Standards, and other online tools including FAQ’s and a webinar "Obligations and Opportunities Under the 2010 ADA Regulations," at APSP.org/ADA.

For more information about the ADA as it relates to pools and spas, visit ADA.gov.

Sincerely,

Carvin DiGiovanni

Senior Director, Technical & Standards

 

[fatboy]

[TABLE=width: 100%]

[TR]

[TD]

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[TD]

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Dear Official,



Yesterday, Thursday, March 15, 2012, the Department of Justice (DOJ) issued a press release stating that the deadline for pool and spa compliance with the American with Disabilities Act will be extended for 60 days. This means that at a minimum, the compliance date has been extended until May 19, 2012. The DOJ is requesting comments as to whether to further extend the compliance date until September 17, 2012 to allow additional time to address misunderstandings made known to them regarding compliance with these ADA requirements.



It is not clear whether the DOJ will accept and consider comments on the actual requirements, or only on whether further deadline extension is needed. APSP will continue to monitor the situation and provide instructions for commenting once the official notice is posted in the Federal Register on March 20, 2012.

In the meantime, APSP members can access the DOJ’s Technical Assistance Document, the ADA’s 2010 Accessibility Standards, and other online tools including FAQ’s and a webinar "Obligations and Opportunities Under the 2010 ADA Regulations," at APSP.org/ADA.



For more information about the ADA as it relates to pools and spas, visit ADA.gov.

Sincerely,

Carvin DiGiovanni

Senior Director, Technical & Standards

 

[KZQuixote]

BTW, I didn't think Ted had a dog.

However, your Kaczynski impersonation is better than your Foghorn.

His name was Kamden. He was a 100 lb German Wirehair/ Golden Retriever mix. He always told me his favorite flavor of dog was french vanilla.

FogHorn became irrelevant so I retired him .

Bill

 

[Alias]

Pool owners should close their pools and post a sign indicating the reason for closed pools is over-reaching regs of DOJ and disabled who cannot accept the fact they are disabled and not able to do everything able-bodied people can.

Sorry, I don't agree. Swimming can be one of the few exercise opportunities for the disabled. Our disabled and seniors attend water therapy classes at the local pool during the summer. The City installed a lift at the local public pool about five years ago, catching up to CA ADA. BTW, our public pool is only open for about three months a year.

 

[Alias]

Time for tort reform, especially in California regarding ADA compliance.

Agreed. :cowboy

 

[Coug Dad]

DOJ issues 60 day delay for pools

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/mar/15/pool-mageddon-avoided-now/

 

[Msradell]

Pool owners should close their pools and post a sign indicating the reason for closed pools is over-reaching regs of DOJ and disabled who cannot accept the fact they are disabled and not able to do everything able-bodied people can.

And may you spend the rest of your life confined to a wheelchair!

 

[mark handler]

And may you spend the rest of your life confined to a wheelchair!

Calm down.

Take a breath......

Walk Away

Close Your Eyes

Find Some Solitude

Go Outside

Find Some Water

lie down somewhere

 

[KZQuixote]

And may you spend the rest of your life confined to a wheelchair!

Ever read "Player Piano"? Would you consider wearing a ball and chain because you are not disabled?

I agree, there's no place today, for discrimination of any sort but if anyone thinks the DOJ can make disabled folks whole, they're kidding themselves and wasting my money.

Sometimes Life's a bitch.

Bill

 

[Sifu]

Has California already addressed tort reform in some measure by limiting punitive damages? Has that action done anything to curtail lawsuits?

Probably a lot of the time even if a particular civil action is obviously without merit those who sit in judgement have a hard time ruling against the ADA side, either due to over-riding sentimentality or maybe just the image it would carry with it. The unfortunate thing about this is it gives the appearance to those on the outside that all cases are frivoulous, while burying the valid cases among them. Until the judges and juries learn to tell the difference we'll have to deal with all cases. We can't throw out the baby with bath water. It would be nice though if agencies like the DOJ would also use a more discerning eye when they agree to proceed or provide support to some of those actions.

 

[mark handler]

Has California already addressed tort reform in some measure by limiting punitive damages?

No

Has that action done anything to curtail lawsuits?

No

 

[Sifu]

So, If someone decides to post a no blacks, no irish no jew sign, we should let the public decide...discrimination of anykind is wrong. ADA is a civil rights law. You are discriminating againt our vets.

Are you advocating keeping someone that gave their limbs to defend your rights, cannot use the facilities?

Not advocating anything, just posing a thought. It requires a lot of thought, a lot of critical thinking and not knee-jerk reactions. I am not sure you make a fair comparison. I am not saying a business should deny someone the use of something, as did Woolworth's in the 60's. I am asking this; if the ABC hotel corp. decides to put in accessible facilities and the XYZ hotel corp does not, does the public have the option to choose between the two? After all, it could be said that if we forcefully impose rules that are prohibitively expensive (some are) then the XYZ corp. would need to raise its price. If that happens have we now price it too high for a segment of the population........have we now discriminated against the poor? Now both the ABC and the XYZ have too high a price for the poor. Does the gov't. come in now and limit the price so we aren't discriminating against the poor? Is it better to have one hotel without enough rooms for everyone that can set whatever price it wants because the gov't regs put the other one out of business or two hotels, with the second one not as accessible and making them both affordable? Where is the end?

It cost a great deal to provide accessibility. It cost nothing to serve blacks at a lunch counter. Indeed, it could be said that ending that discrimination saved money, there being no need for separate facilities and duplication of services. Before anyone gets mad at me, I am an advocate for sensible, reasonable accessibility regulation. Ask yourself this, what is enough? How far are you willing to go or make someone else go. There has to be a limit. Some folks may have a lower limit than others. I also believe when any code goes too far, or gets too confusing there is enevitable resistance. The best code is the most easily understood and the most easily implimentable, otherwise it becomes easier to cheat, run, hide or just plain close shop than to comply.

 

[Sifu]

Am I wrong about the punative limits or just ignorant of the relationship between punative damages and tort reform? That is an honest question, not a smart-*** one. As to curtailing the suits I assumed that answer would be no since I think that would be up to the lawyers and plaintiffs and I am sure there will never be a shortage of those. Thats why I think the hope (if there is any) is in the sense of judges and juries.

 

[mark handler]

Discrimination is discrimination.

That is what the ADA, a civil rights law says.

A law Signed by the first Bush, not Obama, twenty years old.

Prorate the cost over twenty years.

And Did you know there are state and federal tax deductions for accessibility upgrades?

I've been hearing about the "cost" for twenty years, time to stop wineing about "cost"

 

[Sifu]

So what is your limit then? Elevator to Everest? I guess reasonable people can disagree on things. I for one don't drink the kool-aid. If the gov't says its discrimination....well I guess they never get it wrong. What will you do if they tell you to put in a ramp, a pool lift, braille signs, level carpet, truncated domes etc. etc. in your home just in case a member of the general public might someday come over to sell you an encyclopedia. Oh, it will be OK because they will give you a tax deduction. Think that can't happen? Just look how thick the code books are now. I'll say this again, I am an advocate for accessibility but I am not a nut about it. My life has been severely impacted by disability so I think I have a pretty clear perspective on it.

 

[mark handler]

So once again, you deflect and dismiss it.

That's why we have the issue, it has been deflected and dismissed for twenty years.

 

[mark handler]

So what is your limit then? Elevator to Everest? .

You don't read the posts and I know you have not read the ADA or the ADAAG

As I posted before

If is not readily achievable to immediately provide an accessible means of entry and exit at every pool, then the entity must remove barriers to the extent that it is readily achievable to do so. It is important to note that the barrier removal obligation is a continuing one, and it is expected that a business will take steps to improve accessibility over time.

 

[Sifu]

For the record, I do read the posts and I have read the ADA/ADAAG. But unlike you I don't pretend to know everything. Reading/knowing a code or law does not mean agreeing with it in jack-boot fashion in practice or in principle. I ask questions and pose thoughtful ideas which I hope will engage thoughtful response and in this case that time has passed. I use this forum to gain knowledge and insight and if possible by some miracle give it if I can. This thread has ceased to provide any engaging debate and unfortunately has degraded into defensive posturing. I will continue to believe there is a limit to the intervention into our lives and businesses and you will not. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[mark handler]

Delete .

 

[brudgers]

Sometimes Life's a bitch.

So it goes.

 

[brudgers]

Reading/knowing a code or law does not mean agreeing with it in jack-boot fashion in practice or in principle. .

Judges are conferring to determine if Godwin's law has been invoked.

 

[incognito]

And may you spend the rest of your life confined to a wheelchair!

Funny stuff Msradell. And I would be willing to bet you're in the front row on Sunday morning as well.

New construction and a percentage of each remodel project should strive to meet ADA regs. But this "over the top" bull "stuff" of requiring existing to modify or be fined is crazy. It's easy to bluster about civil rights and cost not being an issue when you are not the one having to pay for this nonsense.