Pool fence egress

[ahff71]

Is an emergency exit required for an HOA community swimming pool? (On any day, there may be 10-50 people in the facility, including plenty of kids.)

Our existing second gate is locked 24/7 with a chain and padlock. The only entry/egress is through the pool building gate. The building has storage, office, restrooms, etc. If the building were to catch fire or there's a person with a weapon, the only way out is through the building's gate.

Isn't there some requirement that an emergency exit exsists? (The chain/padlock could be removed and an emergeny push bar installed)

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Thanks fatboy,

I'm kind of leaning the other way and allowing it, for a few reasons......

1) I don't see any inherent danger that would require egress from an outdoor pool area regardless of what side of the fence you are on.

While it is unlikely that a swimming pool will catch fire, fires are not the only emergencies that cause people to evacuate occupied areas.

 

[ICE]

It has been my experience that there are many versions of swimming pool barrier regulations. For as many cities as there are here in SoCal there's a different pool barrier ordinance for each one.

For example LA County has the Health Department responsible for all but SFR pools.
I was a building inspector that wrote barrier corrections at apartment and condo swimming pools. That upset the health dept. More than once I was told that I had no jurisdiction and to go away. Given that I was there for some project under a permit and just happened to see a violation, if the HD got pushy I offered to visit an apartment complex a week and ding them. What with my lousy attitude and all, I hung in there.

With buildings we make sure that people can get out and with pools we make it difficult to get in and don't care if they can get out.

 

[ahff71]

ICE,
Yeah I understand. I'm doing all these inquires cause i can't find andything definitive in national, state or local sources.

I've got HOA boad members who are resisting putting a push-bar on our second gate because they say our insurance doesn't require it. Money trumps safety. And if some teenage wants badly enough to go for a swim, he can simply climb our fence. Heck, I could probably do it and I'm 70+.

They seem to be more worried about the $500 for the push bar system, a kid's midnight swim and insurance requirements than some lunatic angry with his ex in a bikini and let's loose with a firearm.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Is an emergency exit required for an HOA community swimming pool? (On any day, there may be 10-50 people in the facility, including plenty of kids.)

Our existing second gate is locked 24/7 with a chain and padlock. The only entry/egress is through the pool building gate. The building has storage, office, restrooms, etc. If the building were to catch fire or there's a person with a weapon, the only way out is through the building's gate.

Isn't there some requirement that an emergency exit exsists? (The chain/padlock could be removed and an emergeny push bar installed)

How big is the pool building? Does it require two means of egress?

If the pool building requires two means of egress, then both means of egress must include exit discharge terminating at a street or public way. A locked gate would obviously not allow that.

 

[ahff71]

I'm guessing the the building is about 400 sf. It's a couple of one-holers on on side, an office/storage on the other with the entrace gate and walkway to the pool between them. The other, locked gate is at the far end of grounds, perhaps a half acre or a bit more for the entire facility.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

As a general rule, exit discharge must provide an unobstructed path of travel to a street or public way. (IBC 1028.5) The pool deck area is a place of assembly. Should the building catch fire, if that's the only unlocked exit -- how do people get away from the fire?

It is possible under IBC 1028.5 to provide a safe dispersal area where access to a street or public way cannot be provided. But ALL the conditions much be satisfied:

1028.5 Access to a public way. The exit discharge shall provide a direct and unobstructed access to a public way.

Exception: Where access to a public way cannot be provided, a safe dispersal area shall be provided where all of the following are met:
1. The area shall be of a size to accommodate not less than 5 square feet (0.46 m2) for each person.
2. The area shall be located on the same lot not less than 50 feet (15 240 mm) away from the building requiring egress.
3. The area shall be permanently maintained and identified as a safe dispersal area.
4. The area shall be provided with a safe and unobstructed path of travel from the building.

When we encounter requests to use this exception, we check with the Fire Marshal to ensure that they are also okay with it. You will need to ensure that the portion of the pool deck more than 50 feet from the building is large enough to accommodate the maximum anticipated occupant load and that it is always maintained free of obstructions. I would also consider requiring that the dispersal area be limited to a safe distance from the edge of the pool, so there's no concern of people being pushed into the pool by a panicked crowd.

BUT ... the exception says "Where access to a public way cannot be provided." If you have a gate, then obviously access to the public way CAN be provided, and a strict interpretation of the code would be that the exception does not apply.

 

[Yikes]

It has been my experience that there are many versions of swimming pool barrier regulations. For as many cities as there are here in SoCal there's a different pool barrier ordinance for each one.

For example LA County has the Health Department responsible for all but SFR pools.
I was a building inspector that wrote barrier corrections at apartment and condo swimming pools. That upset the health dept. More than once I was told that I had no jurisdiction and to go away. Given that I was there for some project under a permit and just happened to see a violation, if the HD got pushy I offered to visit an apartment complex a week and ding them. What with my lousy attitude and all, I hung in there.

With buildings we make sure that people can get out and with pools we make it difficult to get in and don't care if they can get out.

In LA County, isn’t the building department the enforcing agency for LA Co Code 31B?

 

[mtlogcabin]

If the occupant load for the pool area is 50 or more then a second exit is required




[BE] 1010.1.9.2 Hardware height.
Door handles, pulls, latches, locks and other operating devices shall be installed 34 inches (864 mm) minimum and 48 inches (1219 mm) maximum above the finished floor. Locks used only for security purposes and not used for normal operation are permitted at any height.

Exception: Access doors or gates in barrier walls and fences protecting pools, spas and hot tubs shall be permitted to have operable parts of the latch release on self-latching devices at 54 inches (1370 mm) maximum above the finished floor or ground, provided that the self-latching devices are not also self-locking devices operated by means of a key, electronic opener or integral combination lock.

 

[ICE]

SECTION 3101BSCOPE

The provisions of this chapter shall apply to the construction,installation, renovation, alteration, addition, relocation,replacement or use of any public pool and to its ancillary facilities, mechanical equipment and related piping. Public pools include those located in or designated as the following:commercial building, hotel, motel, resort, recreational vehicle or mobile home park, campground, apartment house, condominium, townhouse, homeowner association, club,community building or area, public or private school, health club or establishment, water park, swim school, medical facility, bed and breakfast, licensed day-care facility, recreation and park district and municipal pools.

Note: Existing law limits application of building standards.Please see Health and Safety Code Sections 18938.5 and116050.

[DSA-AC] Refer to Chapter 11B for accessibility provisions applicable to public accommodations, commercial buildings and public housing.