• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Ramp, landing and handrails

Jim B said:
Papio Bldg Dept,I know that you have asked this question of Mark:

But there are exceptions under IBC 2009; 1104 for providing accessible routes to non-grade level floors.

Keep in mind that these exceptions are only for accessible routes, not other features or fixtures specified in Chapter 11 unless specified. The concept is that an accessible route (ramps, sloped surfaces) tends to benefit wheelchair users while a person may have a visual or hearing impairment or may be on crutches and may still navigate stairs.

Also in the future, there may be an addition that will drive accessible routes to these levels; if so, the features and fixtures are already accessible.

Also, as per my previous posts, if your jurisdiction has adopted the I-Codes and the reference standards that the IBC may refer to, then the stairs that you have questioned do not need to meet ANSI A117.1-2003 requirements since IBC Chapter 10 never references ANSI A117.1-2003 for stairs.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jim. I appreciate your patience, however, I still find it illogical (and yes I follow the line of code in what is referenced and not referenced) that the accessibility standards are applied to everything but the stairs, especially, in multi-level exemptions. As Mark said, there are other forms of disabilities to which the ANSI standards are designed to aide. I will sleep on it I guess, and hopefully when I wake up tomorrow morning eureka, I will have reconciled how a 3,000 SF, 2nd Floor, Non-Medical B Occupancy, is permitted to have a means of egress component that does not meet the specifications of the ANSI A117.1 (only a 48" width minimum and an area of refuge as required) because it is not considered an accessible route component and is not referenced in Chapter 10. If not, maybe I will ask the dentist for an extra shot of novicaine to take the edge off what seems to me a code loop-hole/over-sight. ;)
 
Papio Bldg Dept said:
Thanks Jim. I appreciate your patience, however, I still find it illogical (and yes I follow the line of code in what is referenced and not referenced) that the accessibility standards are applied to everything but the stairs, especially, in multi-level exemptions. As Mark said, there are other forms of disabilities to which the ANSI standards are designed to aide. I will sleep on it I guess, and hopefully when I wake up tomorrow morning eureka, I will have reconciled how a 3,000 SF, 2nd Floor, Non-Medical B Occupancy, is permitted to have a means of egress component that does not meet the specifications of the ANSI A117.1 (only a 48" width minimum and an area of refuge as required) because it is not considered an accessible route component and is not referenced in Chapter 10. If not, maybe I will ask the dentist for an extra shot of novicaine to take the edge off what seems to me a code loop-hole/over-sight. ;)
Click to expand...
Section 1007.3 addresses accessible means of egress stairways.
 
Papio Bldg Dept said:
Good morning Mark. I think I woke up on the confused side of the bed again. Please help with the logic. If a stairway is not part of an accessible route, and 1104.4 exempts the accessible route connection between floors, then second floor still has to provide accessible routes per chapter 11 (i.e., door approach clearances, reach ranges, toilet facilities, etc.), but may omit connections such as lifts, ramps and elevators? It strikes me as the same logic which says, if you don't have an accessible entrance, what good is an accessible toilet.Thanks again for any clarification, your insight is always much appreciated and indelible.
Click to expand...
Accessible toilet facilities, door approach clearances, reach ranges, and other features are not just for the wheelchair users.

Yes. the IBC Chapter 10 never references ANSI A117.1-2003 for stairs. Stairs are not a part of an Accessible Route in any of the codes or standards.

ADAAG Accessible Route.

A continuous unobstructed path connecting all accessible elements and spaces of a building or facility. Interior accessible routes may include corridors, floors, ramps, elevators, lifts, and clear floor space at fixtures. Exterior accessible routes may include parking access aisles, curb ramps, crosswalks at vehicular ways, walks, ramps, and lifts.
 
brudgers said:
The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience... The law embodies the story of a nation's development through many centuries, and it cannot be dealt with as if it contained only the axioms and corollaries of a book of mathematics. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Wendell_Holmes,_Jr.]
Click to expand...
thanks for the link, but you left out my favorite, and more telling, part brudgers..."The felt necessities of the time, the prevalent moral and political theories, intuitions of public policy, avowed or unconscious, and even the prejudices which judges share with their fellow-men, have had a good deal more to do than syllogism in determining the rules by which men should be governed."

I guess I still feel/believe (my own personal prejudice if you will) that if occupants (non-wheelchair occupants) with disabilities are going to use stairs, then the stairs should adhere to the accessibility standards...for stairs. I also feel/believe that as it is only my opinion, and not the codes/laws adopted, I will not enforce that section/standard in the A117.1, as I am not charged to by the IBC.

If that section of ANSI stair code could talk I would ask it, 'what would you say you do here?'
 
brudgers said:
The life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience... The law embodies the story of a nation's development through many centuries, and it cannot be dealt with as if it contained only the axioms and corollaries of a book of mathematics. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Wendell_Holmes,_Jr.]
Click to expand...
"At the end of the day when you're all alone in the dark,

the only thing that counts... is this: the Law.

And you will be alone when you swear to uphold these ideals."

Quote From a Great Movie staring a Great Actor. lol:lol:
 
gbhammer said:
"At the end of the day when you're all alone in the dark, the only thing that counts... is this: the Law.

And you will be alone when you swear to uphold these ideals."

Quote From a Great Movie staring a Great Actor. lol:lol:
Click to expand...
A dredd-ful quote by a less than adroit actor.
 
Hm I thought that was a dramatic role, you know as a kid back then I thought that movie was real somewhere.

All in all he has made so many roles into a joke that he has to be a comedian.

I like watching his films, and chuckling.
 
If that section of ANSI stair code could talk I would ask it, 'what would you say you do here?'
Click to expand...
The minor differences between ANSI A117 and the IBC Chapter 10 could almost be covered under "construction tolerances" ( max nosing radius comes to mind) major differences will be worked out in future code adoptions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top