Reason #1 to be 100% paperless with online on permit applications

[fatboy]

The "tech-challenged" are a minority.

Get a wind or hail event, and you have ten times the number of permits you are accustomed to?

You will wish you had tolerated the minority of permits that need hand-holding.

Even the hard-core GC's can be trained.

We have a PC set up with back-to-back monitors where admin and permit techs can take them through it step by step.

The very few that don't get it, we do the scanning for them.

 

[jar546]

There has been many responses from plan checkers but nothing from inspectors

All of our inspectors love it. First of all, the plans must be on the jobsite so if you have the need to touch paper, you can do so on the jobsite. If they are in bad shape, you know, ripped, coffee stained, wing sauce and bleu cheese stained, you can always open your laptop, pad or phone to take a look at the official drawings and zoom right in.

 

[ICE]

All of our inspectors love it. First of all, the plans must be on the jobsite so if you have the need to touch paper, you can do so on the jobsite. If they are in bad shape, you know, ripped, coffee stained, wing sauce and bleu cheese stained, you can always open your laptop, pad or phone to take a look at the official drawings and zoom right in.

If you were an inspector I would pay attention to what you have to say....but you're not, so I won't.

 

[steveray]

If you were an inspector I would pay attention to what you have to say....but you're not, so I won't.

It's not bad with ipads in the field....commercial stuff we are still doing paper so we have not seen that challenge yet....But, I do not imagine the customers will squawk too much with having one paper set in the field and keeping them from throwing out several paper sets on review, which can be digital...

 

[ICE]

I do both. I find taking a computer in the field ridiculously easy. Also, way easier to email a report than print....
And in our system, the same individual generally does plans reviews and field inspections.

As I walk the job I write corrections. The corrections can come to me faster than I can write. With the paperless system I am then supposed to write the corrections in the computer. Then send the registered, interested parties an email of the corrections.

At the next inspection the inspector is supposed to find the corrections on an IPad. If the previous inspector is keeping up with the chores they are there....sort of. The building permit has the building corrections and none of the MEP as they are on the respective digital permit files. The extra step and a lazy inspector gets predictable results.

Give me a correction slip. I see it all right there in front of me. There's no dicking around looking for what's not there.

 

[steveray]

As I walk the job I write corrections. The corrections can come to me faster than I can write. With the paperless system I am then supposed to write the corrections in the computer. Then send the registered, interested parties an email of the corrections.

At the next inspection the inspector is supposed to find the corrections on an IPad. If the previous inspector is keeping up with the chores they are there....sort of. The building permit has the building corrections and none of the MEP as they are on the respective digital permit files. The extra step and a lazy inspector gets predictable results.

Give me a correction slip. I see it all right there in front of me. There's no dicking around looking for what's not there.

I've seen some of the inspection slips you have posted....can't even read them.....

 

[ICE]

I've seen some of the inspection slips you have posted....can't even read them.....

You have never seen a correction slip that I wrote. You never will. The slips that are not legible got an inspection from scratch and that was true of all others. There were few inspectors that I trusted.

 

[BN4537]

If you were an inspector I would pay attention to what you have to say....but you're not, so I won't.

We have the same kind of set-up. When I walk the site, I take a picture of every violation I see. I don't say anything or even break stride. When I get to the end, if the contractor is there I scroll through the photos and show them each issue. I then head to the truck and fill out the report and email everyone involved. If I am too busy to fill out the report immediately, no problem, they are recorded in my photos and can be sorted out later.

If I need plans for an inspection, I download them at the beginning of the day. Then, I still have them for subsequent inspections. The iPad is easier to carry and more weatherproof than paper, and if you drop it, it does not blow away (we have sturdy cases). The handwriting issue is definitely a plus...

 

[BN4537]

And the handwriting issue is more about trying to figure out what the last guy wrote up, in my case.

 

[jar546]

If you were an inspector I would pay attention to what you have to say....but you're not, so I won't.

Troll

 

[jar546]

As I walk the job I write corrections. The corrections can come to me faster than I can write. With the paperless system I am then supposed to write the corrections in the computer. Then send the registered, interested parties an email of the corrections.

At the next inspection the inspector is supposed to find the corrections on an IPad. If the previous inspector is keeping up with the chores they are there....sort of. The building permit has the building corrections and none of the MEP as they are on the respective digital permit files. The extra step and a lazy inspector gets predictable results.

Give me a correction slip. I see it all right there in front of me. There's no dicking around looking for what's not there.

It is even easier than that. I talk into my phone and it transcribes it for me so I can be more descriptive. I don't type anything then take photos that go directly into the app for the inspection. It is so easy that I could probably teach you to do it.

 

[jar546]

Another benefit for the inspector is that you can preload all of the routine code violations you see and just click on them and poof, you are done. Add a photo for effect and waalaa. You have a legible, professional report done quick than you could with paper.

 

[jar546]

You have never seen a correction slip that I wrote. You never will. The slips that are not legible got an inspection from scratch and that was true of all others. There were few inspectors that I trusted.

Here is your new Avatar

 

[ICE]

It is even easier than that. I talk into my phone and it transcribes it for me so I can be more descriptive. I don't type anything then take photos that go directly into the app for the inspection. It is so easy that I could probably teach you to do it. Another benefit for the inspector is that you can preload all of the routine code violations you see and just click on them and poof, you are done. Add a photo for effect and waalaa. You have a legible, professional report done quick than you could with paper.

I remember the days when the studs lined up. Layout existed. Plumb, level and tight were the norm. Today, Norm is a dead comedian.

More effort goes into smoothing the way than being able to perform a competent inspection. Jeff, you have it your way and it works great for you. The reality in So. Ca. is so different...drop down menu ...that's a hoot.

Fifteen years ago we were supposed to get laptops. That's right fifteen years ago. I was chosen as the beta inspector. My first question was about a drop down menu. There was none. I asked if I could create one. No. I was told that the Oracle program was not that sophisticated... It was after all, an off the shelf application. Big money was spent and it went nowhere. A committee was formed. There's still a committee debating whether or not to buy saddles for the horses.

2022 It finally came to fruition .... no drop down....can't create one. Bottom shelf all the way.

That picture of fatboy is gonna take some getting used to.

 

[steveray]

You have never seen a correction slip that I wrote. You never will. The slips that are not legible got an inspection from scratch and that was true of all others. There were few inspectors that I trusted.

That is why I said slips you've posted.....I know you are not that guy.....

 

[ICE]

I talk into my phone and it transcribes it for me so I can be more descriptive

That produces some way strange stuff huh.

 

[jj1289]

We have been paperless for over a year now with very few complaints from the public. In fact, today I talked to a property owner who applied for a permit and he mentioned that he is 70+ and not computer savy and I told him he did much better than many contractors with providing the necessary information needed in order to issue the permit.

As for large projects, paperless is actually easier since you can use several monitors and overlay sheets for comparisons and comment right on the document and send back to the applicant instead of a very long explanation in a letter.

Just like Steveray, we have a department email that people can use if they do not have an email address and we will assist with getting documents electronically by either contacting the design professional or scanning smaller projects.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Jar, can your program change languages? I can't understand half the contractors or owners. If they could write the application in Russian then can it auto change to English?
Don't get me wrong, I think paperless is great but I don't see my company doing it. We charge by the hour so there is no rush. But we do have a APP to use on I phones for inspections that is very clumsy to use. For one thing if the contractor scheduled a rough plumbing inspection but when you get there he also wants a rough plumbing inspection we can't get the rough mechanical inspection on the APP till the next day. Also it does take voice but hardly gets it right so I have to use my fat thumbs (when you want "2 inches" it comes out "to inches", etc.) Also about 1/3 of my area does not have service and is down a lot where we do have service.

 

[jar546]

Jar, can your program change languages? I can't understand half the contractors or owners. If they could write the application in Russian then can it auto change to English?

They fill out standard forms, scan them and upload them just like they would drop off the forms in paper to old-school building departments. The parts they fill out online are all in english, including drop down lists, check boxes and parcel control numbers.

With that being said, I am in one of the most diverse areas of the country, comparable to NYC. The most common languages I hear on jobsites are English, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Polish, & Romanian, with Spanish & Portuguese being the most prevalent due to a large Hispanic/Latino population which includes a lot of Brazilians. All of the qualifiers speak English, most of the workers do not. There are always language barriers on jobsites which is why many of us have learned some key phrases in Spanish which makes our job easier.

If you want to see what the public does when they go online to apply for a permit, create and account and apply for a dummy permit here on our training site:

Town of Highland Beach Public Portal

SmartGov Public Portal by Brightly Software, Inc.

twn-highlandbeach-fl.training.smartgovcommunity.com

 

[jar546]

That produces some way strange stuff huh.

The acceptance of your new avatar speaks volumess to the thickness of your skin. Bravo amico, bravo.

 

[tmurray]

On the question of inspections, I love digital plans. I now have access to all the plans and supporting documents at all stages of construction. I'm not relying on approved plans that are not on site, truss plans that are only half there, or plans that have endured so many accidents that they are no illegible.

I can write and type correction into my iPad at about the same speed, so no factor there either.

Photos and corrections are uploaded immediately from site, meaning that if another inspector does the follow-up inspection, they have direct access to my notes and photos.

The whole "you need to have a copy of the approved plans on site" and "keep the correction slip for reinspection" was simply there because the government can't do a good enough job at managing their records, so you have to do it for them.

 

[ICE]

The whole "you need to have a copy of the approved plans on site" and "keep the correction slip for reinspection" was simply there because the government can't do a good enough job at managing their records, so you have to do it for them.

So what makes you think that the government will do a better job with no paper. It is true enough that the government has a poor track record of keeping track of records, Getting rid of the records hardly seems like an honest work around.

Ya I know that it's great for many, if not all of you however, my experience is not the same as yours. Perhaps I have been exposed to crap programs....or maybe as indicated, I'm just a dummy awash in a sea of dummies. Either way it has failed to perform as advertised. The adage "If it ain't broke don't fix it" applies.

I can identify features that have a proven utility, Permit applications and plan submitting in a digital format work....then issue a paper permit and have paper plans. Do not tether an inspector to a device and let him write a correction notice.

I used to be able to go to the permit files and learn a great deal about who is doing the job and who is skating on thin ice. I could identify patterns of behavior by contractors. Try that with a computer.

 

[ICE]

When the contractor can point to the sky because the ether holds the answer...well then the claim can't be readily denied. Correction slips tell me when and how often we have been there. I have a written record of the course of events. I can hold it up and challenge any wrong assertion.

One inspection had a description on the request slip that said 55 windows and 8 doors. I was expecting an apartment building but it was a house. The contractor claimed that the work passed a final inspection but the job card had not been signed due to a possible water leak.

Nine inches from the floor to 6’ high casement windows on a third floor lacked fall protection. There was no etched info that said “tempered”.

There was a letter from a roofing contractor that claimed to have fixed a leak but no paper from the city about any of that...... Of course not, they don’t use paper and I didn’t have access to their computer. Well let me back up a tad. That city does use correction slips, it’s just that they don’t use correction slips. The building official played it off as a contractor trying to BS me. He didn't count on the owner being there for all of it.

This is an example of every ass being covered by a lack of any written proof of the failure to perform. They all point to the cloud for salvation. All I saw was blue sky…so I painted it red.

 

[tmurray]

It really sounds like you have been exposed to some poor softwares, or didn't get the training you should have to use them effectively.

There is nothing you said you can do with paper that I can't do with digital.
1. There are no records. Not true. They are just digital
2. Contractor track records. I can run a report in seconds showing me what contractors are needing multiple reinspection and what for what type of inspections across every single project in my jurisdiction.
3. Contractor saying stuff is signed off on that isn't. I can see every inspection report in my software. Even ones that got conveniently misplaced.
4. Building official is dishonest? Fire them. They are an issue with any system.

Not only can I pull up the garage this guy is building today, I can pull up the permit information for the home when it was constructed in 1976. Every record I have is digitized.