ICE said:
Please jwelectric,I am willing to learn and you are willing to teach so help me help the electricians. Many of them want to get it right and I need a code section if I'm going to ask them to dig up a sewer grounding electrode.
I have been involved with the study of the NEC for many years and have been teaching it for a long time.
As an educator of this book I teach only what is published and adopted in my area. I do not teach what is published in other books such as the Handbook or Soars on grounding but only what is printed in our adopted codes.
What I have seen over the years is people don’t want to take the time to learn what is printed but instead blindly follow what others say even when there is a disagreement. There is a mindset with a lot of inspectors that they are some almighty force that has all control and are the ones that have to teach the backwoods electricians instead of doing what they were hired to do and that is simply enforce the words adopted in their area.
Part III of Article 250 gives guidance on the installation of the grounding electrode, the electrode conductor and the conductors used to bond all the electrodes together.
Section 250.52 list eight items that are to be used as the electrode system if they are present. In this section under subsection (1) is the mention of metal water pipes. There is no mention of the type of water pipes that are to be used as this electrode. This would include any and all metals pipes used for the transport of water be it potable, gray, waste, or circulation water for a nuclear reactor.
In subsection eight of this section there is the mention of other local metal underground systems or structures such as piping systems, underground tanks, and underground metal well casings that are not bonded to a metal water pipe.
So we have two sections in the NEC that addresses piping that is underground. What we do is take other parts of the code and get complacent in the acceptance that this is the only way things are to be done. By this I am addressing the use of the first five feet of potable water after it enters a building. This first five feet is not electrode but instead it is only a path to the electrode. This is found in 250.53(D)(1) “Continuity of the grounding path or the bonding connection to interior piping”
It is only the underground part of the water pipe that is electrode. This is found in 250.52(A)(1), “A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more” and in 250.52(A)(8), “Other local metal underground systems or structures such as piping systems” and even includes a metal oil tank used to store heating oil also found in 250.52(A)(8), “underground tanks.”
ICE said:
Oh and trust me, neither side will relent on the bonding hot water pipe issue. Plenty has been said in several threads.
This blind eye that people hold toward the enforcement of what is adopted is why there is so much disaccord between contractors and inspectors especially when there is an inspector with the attitude that they are sent from heaven to teach the poor backwoods electricians. Many times on this subject I have asked what code section that is going to be used to enforce this stupid practice and no one has yet given me one. If there is no section to enforce this act then there is no way it can be enforced. We spend hours trying to show how we are correct in our thoughts instead of spending just a few seconds showing the code section we use to enforce our opinions.
As an electrical contractor I will spend every dollar I make to fight such stupidity and waste of my profits on a job to just blindly do what I am told without any code section being stated that I am in violation of, in other words when it comes to inspecting my work the inspector will either put up or shut up. Thank God we have laws in NC to prevent an inspector from saying “this is what I want to see before you pass.”
As an electrical inspector who has taken an oath to enforce the adopted codes in my area I am very careful to enforce only what is written not what a bunch of people that spends less than 10 minutes a day studying what they are hired to enforce have to say.
In most inspection departments throughout this nation the people hired to enforce the codes in their area haven’t opened the book they are hired to enforce except for their continuing education seminars. Very few even have a book present when doing an inspection. They inspect based on what they heard instead of opening a book to see for sure.
This hot to cold issue is a prime example of this practice. If it wasn’t then somewhere someone would be able to show where in the codes this required.
As an instructor of several NFPA documents one that comes to mind with the standard of practice of this is how we have always done this is NFPA 70E. After someone get hurts real bad the first thing out of their mouths is, “I’ve been doing this for years like this.” Didn’t stop them from getting hurt.
This has become the mindset of inspectors and electricians, “I’ve been doing it like this for years.” Well this practice needs to stop and time spent studying the codes set forth for guide lines for the installation.
