subject to damage?

[JPohling]

JW - you seem to enjoy throwing around inflamatory and insulting language. I appreciate a person's passion to get it right, and to educate others. However, your language makes it difficult to accept you as sincere.

I do not interpret JW's language that way at all. I hear someone trying to convince the masses that their interpretations are not code supported on this matter. And after multiple requests for code references that would support what seems to be the general consensus there has been no meaningful revelation, but continuing conjecture. One is bound to get a bit frustrated.

 

[mjesse]

I do not interpret JW's language that way at all. I hear someone trying to convince the masses that their interpretations are not code supported on this matter. And after multiple requests for code references that would support what seems to be the general consensus there has been no meaningful revelation, but continuing conjecture. One is bound to get a bit frustrated.

Agreed.

Since I've worked both sides of the counter, so to speak, I learned that it's very convenient for a Code Official to end the conversation at "because I said so"

If a contractor disagrees, it can seem as if they're arguing with a wall. What is needed is healthy discussion and debate (hey, that's what our forum is for)

JW raises some great points. It has made me question the way I interpret system(S) bonding. I am never quick to take a stand on one side or the other without knowing all the facts. I think there is enough gray area here to really go either way.

If you're comfortable requesting a jumper at the WH and done, fine. Most contractors will just go along with it merely to satisfy your interpretation.

But the greater questions by JW and others should considered.

$0.02

mj

 

[mjf]

Here's an iron for the fire.

I propose it's all the same water system.

Water in, water out, some of it heated, some of it flushed, etc.

If continuity isn't required to be proven between hot and cold water, than continuity also wouldn't be required to be proven between potable water and waste water piping.

In conclusion, bonding the incoming water pipe covers cold water, hot water, and waste piping.

 

[ICE]

jwelectric,

jwelectric said:

This pipe is part of the waste water system and is required to be bonded period. The section does not say potable water it only says water system.

If there is 10 feet or more in contact with earth then it is also an electrode.



Likely to be energized has nothing to do with the bonding of this pipe.

That's a big deal and I didn't know that until you pointed it out. In as much as the code requires all grounding electrodes that are present to be utilized the other codes must apply too. Within five feet and all of that....could you give us an example of the correct clamp? Oh and a code section?

Please jwelectric,I am willing to learn and you are willing to teach so help me help the electricians. Many of them want to get it right and I need a code section if I'm going to ask them to dig up a sewer grounding electrode.

Oh and trust me, neither side will relent on the bonding hot water pipe issue. Plenty has been said in several threads.

I'd say Good & Plenty... and now fatboy is off to 7-Eleven.

Besides that, we have a new issue with the sewer electrode.

Cat got your tongue?

 

[jwelectric]

jwelectric,Cat got your tongue?

Read post 66 and you have your answer

 

[jwelectric]

Here's an iron for the fire.I propose it's all the same water system.

Water in, water out, some of it heated, some of it flushed, etc.

If continuity isn't required to be proven between hot and cold water, than continuity also wouldn't be required to be proven between potable water and waste water piping.

In conclusion, bonding the incoming water pipe covers cold water, hot water, and waste piping.

A simple question for you please, show where electrical continuity is required

 

[mjf]

Here's an iron for the fire.I propose it's all the same water system.

Water in, water out, some of it heated, some of it flushed, etc.

If continuity isn't required to be proven between hot and cold water, than continuity also wouldn't be required to be proven between potable water and waste water piping.

In conclusion, bonding the incoming water pipe covers cold water, hot water, and waste piping.

A simple question for you please, show where electrical continuity is required

Re-read my post. I was agreeing with you that electrical continuity need not be proven, BUT, then there's also no need to bond a sewer pipe, since it's all part of the same water system (or show me the code that says it isn't).

 

[ICE]

Read post 66 and you have your answer

Unfortunately I did read it and didn't find any explanation of your invented sewer pipe grounding electrode. Nope and no code to go with it. So let's try this....why don't you put up or shut up.

Hijacking threads with your crusade against rationality is tiresome.

 

[jwelectric]

Re-read my post. I was agreeing with you that electrical continuity need not be proven, BUT, then there's also no need to bond a sewer pipe, since it's all part of the same water system (or show me the code that says it isn't).

Do you drink the water that you flush? Must be something different about it then. The water you drink is potable water and the water you flush is waste water, reference the plumbing code.

As for bonding see the reference following Ice’s quote.

Unfortunately I did read it and didn't find any explanation of your invented sewer pipe grounding electrode. Nope and no code to go with it. So let's try this....why don't you put up or shut up.Hijacking threads with your crusade against rationality is tiresome.

With all the pictures and comments about how bad the electricians are in that concrete jungle that you live in I would think that your expertise would already know the verbiage of Article 250. Read closely 250.52 and pay close attention to 250.52(A)(8)(8) Other Local Metal Underground Systems or Structures. Other local metal underground systems or structures such as piping systems, underground tanks, and underground metal well casings that are not bonded to a metal water pipe.