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Unresponsive Inspector

e hilton

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Maybe reluctance is a better word? .Oh wait, i looked it up, got a different definition:
recalcitrant ... adjective ... having an obstinately uncooperative attitude toward authority. Yep, that fits. And younare exactly right. Could have had a simple 2x6 header in by now.
 

Energystar

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Aug 26, 2020
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15
Location
Kansas
That's me.
There is much more here that I have not discussed in order to focus the discussion on the key point. Suffice it to say that it would be a huge headache to add a header and no chance of using jack studs. Some weird sort of hanger would have to be used.
 

ICE

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Since I had to look it up, I'll go ahead and share the definition. o_O

recalcitrance - the trait of being unmanageable. recalcitrancy, refractoriness, unmanageableness. intractability, intractableness - the trait of being hard to influence or control.
Fatboy thought it was a bone disease.
 

jar546

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Oct 16, 2009
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Palm Beach County Florida
10 days is too long. I would contact the building official's boss. Ask if the building official still works there.

Raise the issue at the city council meeting.

The building official should notify the building owner of the reason for the delay. If it is technical it is likely that the engineer could help resolve it.
Agree
 

ICE

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That's me.
There is much more here that I have not discussed in order to focus the discussion on the key point. Suffice it to say that it would be a huge headache to add a header and no chance of using jack studs. Some weird sort of hanger would have to be used.
A 4x4 and one of these would do the trick. After all, the siding a trim guy needs backing around the windows. Even us folks in stucco-land provide backing for window trim. Actually, I should have said two of those...you'll need one at each end of the 4x4.;)
 
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Pcinspector1

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MID WEST
What is supporting the ridge beam at the end wall gable? Is there a 2x6 support to the top plate?

I agree there is some weight being transferred.

Sometimes we see a gable end full of windows and a roof support beam or ridge member needing support at the gable end wall. And if there's a window in that area, a header is typically used to transfer the weight to the plates. Not sure if this is the case here or not.
 

Yikes

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Curious as to how/if this was resolved.

My 2 cents as an architect:
1. If the inspector has a problem with what they are seeing in the field, he should provide a code citation. If not, they should let it pass.
2. If the inspector sees a code deficiency in the plans that somehow managed to slip past the plan checker, he should provide a code citation.
3. If the inspector is not sure but thinks their might be a code deficiency, and the plans seem silent on the issue, and he wants a clarification from the DPOR prior to approving the inspection, he should provide a code citation.

The inspector should not be the one to initiate the call to the DPOR. It is possible the DPOR gets paid hourly during construction, and the owner will want to remain in control of their A/E budget. Instead, with the code citation, the owner is free to pass it along to the DPOR, then the DPOR initiates the call to the inspector.

I've had superintendents call me in a panic saying the inspector has a problem. I tell the superintendent to make me the bad guy, and tell the inspector I want him to write it up, including the applicable code reference. 30% of the time, the problem goes away right then. 60% of the time, a clarification call or email from me will lay the issue to rest. 10% of the time, the inspector was right, and I'm glad he found the issue and brought it to our attention.
 

ICE

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Curious as to how/if this was resolved.

My 2 cents as an architect:
1. If the inspector has a problem with what they are seeing in the field, he should provide a code citation. If not, they should let it pass.
2. If the inspector sees a code deficiency in the plans that somehow managed to slip past the plan checker, he should provide a code citation.
3. If the inspector is not sure but thinks their might be a code deficiency, and the plans seem silent on the issue, and he wants a clarification from the DPOR prior to approving the inspection, he should provide a code citation.

The inspector should not be the one to initiate the call to the DPOR. It is possible the DPOR gets paid hourly during construction, and the owner will want to remain in control of their A/E budget. Instead, with the code citation, the owner is free to pass it along to the DPOR, then the DPOR initiates the call to the inspector.

I've had superintendents call me in a panic saying the inspector has a problem. I tell the superintendent to make me the bad guy, and tell the inspector I want him to write it up, including the applicable code reference. 30% of the time, the problem goes away right then. 60% of the time, a clarification call or email from me will lay the issue to rest. 10% of the time, the inspector was right, and I'm glad he found the issue and brought it to our attention.
30% of the time you have no clue if the correction was right or wrong. 60% of the time you didn't get a code reference and you were okay with that. If I was right 10% of the time I would hang it up. 100% of the time the inspector was toiling away.
 
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Yikes

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ICE, to clarify:
My comment is not about the number of times an inspector finds something wrong with the construction. That happens all the time. In the context of this thread, my comment is about the number of times the inspector says something is wrong or missing with the DESIGN on the approved plans.

I said that when I ask for a correction inspector to write up a citation and reference the applicable code, 30% of the time they don't write it up; I suspect that's because they dig into the code and find out the plans are in compliance.
60% of the time, they cite a code, and then I have a basis upon which I can demonstrate code compliance to them and convince them it' still OK.
10% of the time, they find something legit.

And to be clear, that doesn't mean my plans are 10% defective; otherwise, I should hang it up, too.
I am referring solely to that much smaller and rarer subset of inspector citations for issues that he might have with the approved permit set of plans - - something that both the DPOR and the plan checker may have gotten wrong.
 
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Sifu

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Sep 3, 2011
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The issue is the absence of a header over a window in a gable end (nonbearing exterior wall). The inspector has been okay. It's his boss that cannot make a decision up or down and won't return any calls. I have sent them plenty of info making my case. No response.

I also have a related question: Is it proper for an inspector to directly contact my engineer or architect or even customer without going through me. Because this code official does this all the time as well. My engineer is irate.
Just got off the phone with an MEP engineer out of state. I find they greatly appreciate reasonable discourse and questions in an effort to achieve the goal, which is to move forward. Nothing wrong with honest questions.
 

Sifu

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8 or 9 days too long, no matter what the situations. Either it failed for cause (CITE A CODE), or it didn't. The inspector should do one or the other, and put the responsibility to argue the case back on you if it failed. If they called the engineer to get clarification, that should have resolved it. I think there must be more than meets the eye here.

But, I am unclear, is this a sealed design, and the inspector or his boss called the DP to discuss, or are we talking about two different issues?
 

Mark K

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May 12, 2010
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I cannot recall being contacted by the City's inspector. It is very appropriate for the Owner to designate an individual to receive communications from the city but would still expect the contractor to be given a copy before the inspector leaves the project.

The way it has worked is:
--The inspector gives the contractor a list of the comments.
--The Contractor resolves the easy uncontroversial comments.
--When the comments are inappropriate, in conflict with the construction documents, or are very expensive to resolve the the Contractor shares the comments with the designers who then help to resolve the comments.
 

tmurray

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NB, Canada
I have contacted an engineer directly only with the permission of the owner/contractor. Usually it is because we are discussing something very technical that the contractor or owner cannot relay themselves. I try to involve the owner/contractor in the discussion as they will sometimes need to make a decision on going forward. This seems to work well since it respects everyone's responsibilities.
 

Rick18071

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Poconos/eastern PA
On our applications we have "responsible person on site contact". We don't care what name they put there but this is the person we use for all inspection contacts.
 

steveray

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West of the river CT
ICE, to clarify:
My comment is not about the number of times an inspector finds something wrong with the construction. That happens all the time. In the context of this thread, my comment is about the number of times the inspector says something is wrong or missing with the DESIGN on the approved plans.

I said that when I ask for a correction inspector to write up a citation and reference the applicable code, 30% of the time they don't write it up; I suspect that's because they dig into the code and find out the plans are in compliance.
60% of the time, they cite a code, and then I have a basis upon which I can demonstrate code compliance to them and convince them it' still OK.
10% of the time, they find something legit.

And to be clear, that doesn't mean my plans are 10% defective; otherwise, I should hang it up, too.
I am referring solely to that much smaller and rarer subset of inspector citations for issues that he might have with the approved permit set of plans - - something that both the DPOR and the plan checker may have gotten wrong.
Being 90% gets you into several "halls of fame" and millions a year......
 

Energystar

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Aug 26, 2020
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Location
Kansas
I thought I should follow up on this old posting. After spending 2 weeks and multiple trips to the job to inspect the framing (large home, but still no excuse), the inspectors said I must install headers over the windows in this non-bearing gable wall. I responded by saying that I would if they would tell me what size header to install. Seems like a reasonable request. Big mistake. They deliberated for 4 more days and told me to contact my engineer of record.

As the firm was extremely busy, it took them two weeks to look at it. In the end they agreed with me that it was fine with no headers. The inspectors held my job up for just over a month for no reason. Recalcitrant indeed.
 

steveray

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West of the river CT
R602.7.4 Nonbearing walls. Load-bearing headers are not
required in interior or exterior nonbearing walls. A single
flat 2-inch by 4-inch (51 mm by 102 mm) member shall be
permitted to be used as a header in interior or exterior nonbearing
walls for openings up to 8 feet (2438 mm) in width
if the vertical distance to the parallel nailing surface above
is not more than 24 inches (610 mm). For such nonbearing
headers, cripples or blocking are not required above the
header.

BEARING WALL STRUCTURE. A building or other
structure in which vertical loads from floors and roofs are primarily
supported by walls.

But I would also agree that a gable could be some sort of bearing...

[RB] WALLS. Walls shall be defined as follows:
Load-bearing wall. A wall supporting any vertical load in
addition to its own weight.
Nonbearing wall. A wall which does not support vertical
loads other than its own weight.
 

cda

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Now I need to look up those other words



recalcitrance - the trait of being unmanageable. recalcitrancy, refractoriness, unmanageableness. intractability, intractableness - the trait of being hard to influence or control.

It sounds like me
 

Energystar

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Messages
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Location
Kansas
It kind of goes with that rolling in the mud stuff.

Steveray, you nailed it. This is precisely what I sent to the inspector. Btw, how do you paste those code sections in like that if they are in picture form?
 
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