Update-ish

[mark handler]

First that was a commercial enterprise, nothing to do with mandatory codes,

BS, It is a government handout, Federal and state Tax Credits for window replacements, gravey train

 

[mtlogcabin]

BS, It is a government handout, Federal and state Tax Credits for window replacements, gravey train

The code does not require existing windows to be replaced. So goverment bribes homeowners thru tax credits by taking our money and giving it to others. None of this stuff (Green/Leed or Energy Star) would stand on its own (cost effective) if there wasn't a subsidy coming from somewhere.

 

[mark handler]

So goverment bribes homeowners thru tax credits by taking our money and giving it to others.

Yes, That is my point.

 

[mtlogcabin]

So you agreed with conarb. the commercial enterprise was not a result of mandatory codes but was created as a result of a way to collect goverment funds

 

[mark handler]

So goverment bribes homeowners thru tax credits by taking our money and giving it to others. yes.

 

[conarb]

No customer of mine ever participated in a government handout program, I never signed up to participate. For one thing B licensed contractors were not eligible, you had to be a C-17, I did add a C-17 to my license but by then the program was over and I only used windows as part of a new building or in some whole house remodels.

 

[FM William Burns]

Origin of Life Safety Code

Extracted from NFPA 101 from NFPA. The historic fires pre 1911 and post were indeed studied to develop the first phases of The Code:

Origin and Development of NFPA 101

The Life Safety Code had its origin in the work of the Committee on Safety to Life of the National Fire Protection Association, which was appointed in 1913. In 1912, a pamphlet titled Exit Drills in Factories, Schools, Department Stores and Theaters was published following its presentation by the late Committee member R. H. Newbern at the 1911 Annual Meeting of the Association. Although the pamphlet’s publication antedated the organization of the Committee, it was considered a Committee publication.

For the first few years of its existence, the Committee on Safety to Life devoted its attention to a study of the notable fires involving loss of life and to analyzing the causes of this loss of life. This work led to the preparation of standards for the construction of stairways, fire escapes, and other egress routes for fire drills in various occupancies, and for the construction and arrangement of exit facilities for factories, schools, and other occupancies. These reports were adopted by the National Fire Protection Association and published in pamphlet form as Outside Stairs for Fire Exits (1916) and Safeguarding Factory Workers from Fire (1918). These pamphlets served as a groundwork for the present Code. These pamphlets were widely circulated and put into general use.

In 1921, the Committee on Safety to Life was enlarged to include representatives of certain interested groups not previously participating in the standard’s development. The Committee then began to further develop and integrate previous Committee publications to provide a comprehensive guide to exits and related features of life safety from fire in all classes of occupancy. Known as the Building Exits Code, various drafts were published, circulated, and discussed over a period of years, and the first edition of the Building Exits Code was published by the National Fire Protection Association in 1927. Thereafter, the Committee continued its deliberations, adding new material on features not originally covered and revising various details in the light of fire experience and practical experience in the use of the Code. New editions were published in 1929, 1934, 1936, 1938, 1939, 1942, and 1946 to incorporate the amendments adopted by the National Fire Protection Association.

National attention was focused on the importance of adequate exits and related fire safety features after the Cocoanut Grove Night Club fire in Boston in 1942 in which 492 lives were lost. Public attention to exit matters was further stimulated by the series of hotel fires in 1946 (LaSalle, Chicago — 61 dead; Canfield, Dubuque — 19 dead; and Winecoff, Atlanta — 119 dead). The Building Exits Code, thereafter, was used to an increasing extent for regulatory purposes. However, the Code was not written in language suitable for adoption into law, because it had been drafted as a reference document and contained advisory provisions that were useful to building designers but inappropriate for legal use. This led to a decision by the Committee to re-edit the entire Code, limiting the body of the text to requirements suitable for mandatory application and placing advisory and explanatory material in notes. The re-editing expanded Code provisions to cover additional occupancies and building features to produce a complete document. The Code expansion was carried on concurrently with development of the 1948, 1949, 1951, and 1952 editions. The results were incorporated into the 1956 edition and further refined in subsequent editions dated 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, and 1963...................

 

[brudgers]

Tearing down the values and traditions of this country doesn't warrant respect.

Just what Jefferson Davis would have argued.

 

[KZQuixote]

Just what Jefferson Davis would have argued.

Still complaining about history are we?

Bill

 

[mark handler]

Originally Posted by packsaddle Tearing down the values and traditions of this country doesn't warrant respect

Are we talking the Puritans? The slave owners? Maybe the KKK?

Or, the freedom of all to live their lives to the fullest, express their views, and not be judged by others, only by God?

 

[texasbo]

Are we talking the Puritans? The slave owners? Maybe the KKK?Or, the freedom of all to live their lives to the fullest, express their views, and not be judged by others, only by God?

A little dramatic.

Again, I didn't see where anyone said that people weren't allowed to express their views. The fact that someone does not respect a certain ideology isn't tantamount to cencorship or repression.

I always find it humorous that there are those who feel that someone doesn't have the right to express their views about someone expressing their views.

 

[texasbo]

Just what Jefferson Davis would have argued.

Ah, yet another thinly veiled and inaccurate comparison of slavery to the topic being discussed.

Good Lord. And I could argue that it is just what Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski argued against.

It's so much easier to use emotion, invective, and diversion in an argument than logic.

 

[texasbo]

Having acceptable losses based on conclusive occurrences be the foundation of minimum code standards seems much different than having the purpose of a code be to a little more ambiguous "potential impacts."

Bingo; excellent comment.

But dreaming up codes to address the current fad is so much more glamorous and trendy, not to mention politically correct...

 

[jim baird]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, God rest ye merry shipmates!

Some, like pwood, can handle whatever is served up without complaining.

Reading Carl Jung lately, I stumbled on a memorable quote.

"...fanaticism is never any more than overcompensated doubt..."

So the louder one blows one's horn, the more he indicates his little raft is not as seaworthy as it might appear.

 

[texasbo]

According to Carl Jung.

And if you'll notice, on the very first page of this crazy thread, pwood was one of the ones who said to "let them play", in reference to political arguments.

 

[FM William Burns]

Jim,

That is PRICELESS

 

[brudgers]

Ah, yet another thinly veiled and inaccurate comparison of slavery to the topic being discussed.Good Lord. And I could argue that it is just what Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski argued against.

It's so much easier to use emotion, invective, and diversion in an argument than logic.

The post I was commenting on argued that "tearing down the values and traditions of this country" was not worthy of respect.

There American traditions and values which were rightly torn down. Slavery being an example where a great deal of blood was spilled in order to do so.

Yet the perniciousness of "values and traditions" is such that America still shamed itself with 100 years of Jim Crow.

"Values and Traditions" would deny women the right to vote, the handicapped access to the public realm, and consenting adults the right to oral sex.

As for arguments based on emotion, invective and diversion..."Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

 

[texasbo]

Yes, and it's oh so convenient to slip the subject of slavery into every argument you're involved in, whether the topic has anything to do with slavery or not. I mean, who can possibly argue with the abolishment of slavery, or oral sex ...?

Classic straw man.

Epic straw man.

The post I was commenting on argued that "tearing down the values and traditions of this country" was not worthy of respect.There American traditions and values which were rightly torn down. Slavery being an example where a great deal of blood was spilled in order to do so.

Yet the perniciousness of "values and traditions" is such that America still shamed itself with 100 years of Jim Crow.

"Values and Traditions" would deny women the right to vote, the handicapped access to the public realm, and consenting adults the right to oral sex.

As for arguments based on emotion, invective and diversion..."Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

 

[mark handler]

Yes, and it's oh so convenient to slip the subject of slavery into every argument you're involved in, whether the topic has anything to do with slavery or not. I mean, who can possibly argue with the abolishment of slavery, or oral sex ...?Classic straw man.

Epic straw man.

When people bring up Americans "Values and Traditions", they seem to forget that we "Americans" enslaved people, as part of our "Values and Traditions". The KKK hung people as a part of our "Values and Traditions".

 

[mtlogcabin]

Slavery being an example where a great deal of blood was spilled in order to do so.

Brudgers being from Alabama you suprised me in that you forgot that war was fought over states rights and is known as the War of Northern Agression it did not start out to abolish slavery and Lincoln only freed the slaves in the Southern states not the Northern states



Areas covered by the Emancipation Proclamation are in red. Slave holding areas not covered are in blue.

 

[texasbo]

When people bring up Americans "Values and Traditions", they seem to forget that we "Americans" enslaved people, as part of our "Values and Traditions". The KKK hung people as a part of our "Values and Traditions".

Yes, so of course you should bring it up in every argument whether it's relevant to the discussion or not. Christ, you two are like little robots that just spew out the same ridiculous mantra regardless of the subject.

You know, if you go back far enough into every person's lineage, there is going to be something that was done that you're not proud of. That doesn't necessarilly have a thing to do with a discussion of today's issues, despite your ham-fisted efforts to wedge it in.

 

[permitguy]

There is a thread in the Commercial Building Codes forum about walkways from a non-required exit.

Maybe you should all go over there and argue about the surface temperature of the sun or the color of the sky.

 

[texasbo]

Such discussion would be off-topic in the commercial codes forum. It's not off-topic in the off-topic forum.

You do realize you are empowered to change the channel, don't you?

I love it when people continue coming back to a thread, in this case TWO HOURS SINCE THE LAST POST, stirring it back up, under the guise of self-righteousness.

If you don't like it, just feel free to visit other threads.

 

[permitguy]

I'm afraid it is off topic in a thread that wasn't political in the first place. If you all wanted to have a pee-pee measuring contest, the appropriate action would have been to start a new thread.

I wonder why we even have mods here . . .