• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Water Faucet installed above kitchen range

$ + + +

From the `09 IPC, Chapter 2 - Definitions:

WASTE: "The discharge from any fixture, appliance, area or appurtenance

that does not contain fecal matter."

+ + + $

 
I stand corrected....but then we need to discuss the defininition of discharge....

north star said:
$ + + +From the `09 IPC, Chapter 2 - Definitions:

WASTE: "The discharge from any fixture, appliance, area or appurtenance

that does not contain fecal matter."

+ + + $

Click to expand...
 
= + =

steveray,

I stand corrected too!......I did not see the requirement in the IPC,

Section 301.3 for every fixture to be connected to the san. sewer

system......In this AHJ, if this requirement were to be [ attempted

to be ] enforced, it would be quickly "not required" to have a drain

connection for the Pot Fillers!

Also, ...possibly one type of solution could be to install a counter

top type trench drain that one might see in a bar, to catch any

drips & wastes!

+ = +

 
Ok, let’s take this one step further and see if we can understand the problem.

2009 IRC

If a faucet can be installed above a kitchen stove, then the following must be allowed:

1. Bar countertop in living room. A wall hung faucet is installed over the countertop; and there is no sink (fixture). Also a non-GFCI electrical receptacle is installed within one foot of the faucet.

2. Laundry room. A cabinet with a countertop is installed in the laundry room across from the washer and dryer. A wall hung faucet is installed over the countertop; and there is no sink (fixture). Also a non-GFCI electrical receptacle is installed within one foot of the faucet.

E3902.7 All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles that are located within 6 feet of the outside edge of a laundry, utility or wet bar sink shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. Numbers 1 and 2; No sink, no violation!

3. R306.1 Every dwelling unit shall be provided with a (ONE) water closet, lavatory, and a bathtub or shower. The 2nd and 3rd bathrooms have a vanity with a solid countertop. A wall hung faucet is installed above the countertop. There is no lavatory basin. There is no GFCI receptacle within 36 inches of the faucet.

E 3901.6 Bathroom. At least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms and such outlet shall be located within 36 inches of the outside edge of each lavatory basin. No lavatory basin, no violation.

I could go further and mention the bedside wall hung faucet in the bedroom above the night stand by the bed without a fixture to drain into; and a non-GFCI electric receptacle within one foot of it, but, these will do for now.

I have just been told that these “pot filler faucets” are in numerous homes throughout central Oklahoma; and that I have opened up a whole can of worms.

If you allow these “pot-filler” faucets installed above an electric or gas range; without a fixture; just how big is the can of worms you have opened up?

Now if you think the above are crazy; take another look at the water faucet you are approving that is installed above a kitchen range.
 
Tubs, toilets and sinks are fixtures. Faucets are not fixtures. Waste can come from a fixture. Water comes from a faucet. Water is not waste until it leaves a fixture.
 
Pot fillers are found in commercial kitchens. The only time I have seen drains in the cooking line are chinese kitchens.
 
Uncle Bob said:
I have just been told that these “pot filler faucets” are in numerous homes throughout central Oklahoma; and that I have opened up a whole can of worms.If you allow these “pot-filler” faucets installed above an electric or gas range; without a fixture; just how big is the can of worms you have opened up?

Now if you think the above are crazy; take another look at the water faucet you are approving that is installed above a kitchen range.
Click to expand...
Central Oklahoma is but one of many locations across the nation where these are installed. I'm sure almost every community in the United States has them! In many areas they are in almost every home price at one half million dollars or more.

They can of worms just got awfully big!
 
"Everybody does it" is not an amendment to the code :)



Subject: Wall hung faucet above and over electric kitchen range.

The subject is not addressed in the 2009 IRC accept as follows:

P2601.1 Scope. The provisions of this chapter shall govern the installation of plumbing not specifically covered in other chapters applicable to plumbing systems. The installation of plumbing, appliances, equipment and systems not addressed by this code shall comply with the applicable provisions of the International Plumbing Code.

International Plumbing Code.

301.2 System installation. Plumbing shall be installed with due regard to preservation of the strength of structural members and prevention of damage to walls, and other surfaces through fixture usage.

A plumbing fixture is required where a faucet is installed.2009 IRC

If a faucet can be installed above a kitchen stove, then the following must be allowed:

1. Bar countertop in living room. A wall hung faucet is installed over the countertop; and there is no sink (fixture). Also a non-GFCI electrical receptacle is installed within one foot of the faucet.

2. Laundry room. A cabinet with a countertop is installed in the laundry room across from the washer and dryer. A wall hung faucet is installed over the countertop; and there is no sink (fixture). Also a non-GFCI electrical receptacle is installed within one foot of the faucet.

E3902.7 All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles that are located within 6 feet of the outside edge of a laundry, utility or wet bar sink shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. Numbers 1 and 2; No sink, no violation!

3. R306.1 Every dwelling unit shall be provided with a (ONE) water closet, lavatory, and a bathtub or shower. The 2nd and 3rd bathrooms have a vanity with a solid countertop. A wall hung faucet is installed above the countertop. There is no lavatory basin. There is no GFCI receptacle within 36 inches of the faucet.

E 3901.6 Bathroom. At least one wall receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms and such outlet shall be located within 36 inches of the outside edge of each lavatory basin. No lavatory basin, no violation.

I could go further and mention the bedside wall hung faucet in the bedroom above the night stand by the bed without a fixture to drain into; and a non-GFCI electric receptacle within one foot of it, but, these will do for now.

If you can show where these installations are code compliant; that's what the original post was asking for. Please keep in mind this is a home; not a commerical kitchen with floor drains.

thanks,

Uncle Bob
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No Uncle Bob, you do not have quite all of the crazies yet - I have a few to send you.

I have not seen a residential pot filler yet, but when I do, it will be accompanied by a drain . It doesn't sound safe to me. I can picture a rangetop full of cooking food items and somebody accidentally dumps the just-filled hot pasta pot all over the place. Now you have heated food gushing through your kitchen. Ick.
 
Mac said:
I can picture a rangetop full of cooking food items and somebody accidentally dumps the just-filled hot pasta pot all over the place. Now you have heated food gushing through your kitchen. Ick.
Click to expand...
So, based on that logic any stove that you can put a pot of water on, should have a drain.....
 
This is similar to conversation when Building Officials were requiring natural light and ventilation in home theaters.

A little logic needs to be used, sometimes we need to stop being technocrats, and use grey matter.

Have them do an alternate means.

The pot is the basin..... and the excess water ends up in the kitchen sink.
 
The Building Officials job is code enforcement. Not misapplying illogical constructs.
 
and what happens when you tell a homeowner they cannot have a pot filler unless they install a drain? They don't install the pot filler until they get their CO then they come back without a permit and install it. Just costs them more money this way. The codes cannot solve every issue. just my humble opinion
 
301.3 All plumbing fixtures used to receive or discharge liquid wastes shall be directly connected to the sanitary drainage system of the building in accordance with the requirements of this code.

A faucet does not discharge wastes. A drain discharges wastes.

A kitchen range is not an "other surface" (prevention of damage to walls, and other surfaces through fixture usage). Besides, ranges that I have seen can get wet without damage.

Water spouts on refrigerators do not have drains.
 
Mac said:
Refrigerators are not plumbing fixtures.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't you consider them a plumbing fixture? They discharge water and have a method to control the discharge, I don't see why you would consider one of them a faucet!
 
Msradell said:
Why wouldn't you consider them a plumbing fixture? They discharge water and have a method to control the discharge, I don't see why you would consider one of them a faucet!
Click to expand...
freezer-2.jpg


thats not real water
 
"I don't see why you would consider one of them a faucet!" - Msradell

What else uses water but is not a faucet..... humidifier!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top