Water Faucet installed above kitchen range

[Uncle Bob]

301.3 All plumbing fixtures used to receive or discharge liquid wastes shall be directly connected to the sanitary drainage system of the building in accordance with the requirements of this code.A faucet does not discharge wastes. A drain discharges wastes.

A kitchen range is not an "other surface" (prevention of damage to walls, and other surfaces through fixture usage). Besides, ranges that I have seen can get wet without damage.

Water spouts on refrigerators do not have drains.

Glennman,

Plumbing shall be installed with due regard to preservation of the strength of structural members and prevention of damage to walls, and other surfaces through fixture usage.

It is the damage to structural members, walls and other surfaces (like cabinets) that surround the range that fixture usage is required for; not the range top. The range top does not qualify as a plumbing fixture.

So you would approve the following installations? If not why?

1. Bar countertop in living room. A wall hung faucet is installed over the countertop; and there is no sink (fixture). Also a non-GFCI electrical receptacle is installed within one foot of the faucet.

2. Laundry room. A cabinet with a countertop is installed in the laundry room across from the washer and dryer. A wall hung faucet is installed over the countertop; and there is no sink (fixture). Also a non-GFCI electrical receptacle is installed within one foot of the faucet.

They are just as code compliant as installing a pot-filler faucet over a range. The code intent of requiring a fixture for the faucet should be clear.

 

[fatboy]

Pick your battles........not one I would take on, buyer beware. opcorn

 

[Jobsaver]

301.3 Connections to the sanitary drainage system.

All plumbing fixtures, drains, appurtenances and appliances used to receive or discharge liquid wastes or sewage shall be directly connected to the sanitary drainage system of the building or premises, in accordance with the requirements of this code. This section shall not be construed to prevent the indirect waste systems required by Chapter 8.

Bob may have a good position that pot fillers are technically illegal, because these and other plumbing fittings seem to fall under the definition of appurtenances in 301.3. Words are just too limiting, but they are what we have to work with. And, definitions found in Chapter 2 are very important. Is a fitting a plumbing appurtenance?

PLUMBING APPURTENANCE. A manufactured device, prefabricated assembly or an on-the-job assembly of component parts that is an adjunct to the basic piping system and plumbing fixtures. An appurtenance demands no additional water supply and does not add any discharge load to a fixture or to the drainage system.

PLUMBING FIXTURE. A receptacle or device that is either permanently or temporarily connected to the water distribution system of the premises and demands a supply of water therefrom; discharges wastewater, liquid-borne waste materials or sewage either directly or indirectly to the drainage system of the premises; or requires both a water supply connection and a discharge to the drainage system of the premises.

It could be argued that a glass becomes a plumbing fixture once temporarily placed beneath a kitchen faucet. It may depend on better defining; At what point in the distribution of potable water does the water become waste? Does potable water become waste upon exiting the spout? After use? Or, only upon being received by a plumbing fixture.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Unless someone can point to the code section(s); I read it as to when you have a waste receptacle it shall be installed as required. I'm not seeing language where faucets are required to have a waste receptacle but where they do are classified as fixtures.

Francis

 

[MASSDRIVER]

301.3 Connections to the sanitary drainage system. All plumbing fixtures, drains, appurtenances and appliances used to receive or discharge liquid wastes or sewage

This looks like the exception to me. It is not used to discharge wast or sewage, just clean water. Similar to a hose spigotshall be directly connected to the sanitary drainage system of the building or premises, in accordance with the requirements of this code. This section shall not be construed to prevent the indirect waste systems required by Chapter 8.

Bob may have a good position that pot fillers are technically illegal, because these and other plumbing fittings seem to fall under the definition of appurtenances in 301.3. Words are just too limiting, but they are what we have to work with. And, definitions found in Chapter 2 are very important. Is a fitting a plumbing appurtenance?

PLUMBING APPURTENANCE. A manufactured device, prefabricated assembly or an on-the-job assembly of component parts that is an adjunct to the basic piping system and plumbing fixtures. An appurtenance demands no additional water supply and does not add any discharge load to a fixture or to the drainage system.

PLUMBING FIXTURE. A receptacle or device that is either permanently or temporarily connected to the water distribution system of the premises and demands a supply of water therefrom; discharges wastewater, liquid-borne waste materials or sewage either directly or indirectly to the drainage system of the premises; or requires both a water supply connection and a discharge to the drainage system of the premises.

It could be argued that a glass becomes a plumbing fixture once temporarily placed beneath a kitchen faucet. It may depend on better defining; At what point in the distribution of potable water does the water become waste? Does potable water become waste upon exiting the spout? After use? Or, only upon being received by a plumbing fixture.

Brent.....

 

[Francis Vineyard]

Note plumbing fixtures, appurtenances, appliances and faucets are listed as separate components in the code; faucets alone are not fixtures, appurtenances, etc., but they may include faucets.

Another way to put it is that section for waste receptors requires fixtures, drains, appurtenances and appliances that have the waste receptor be installed as required. Faucets by themselves do not require waste receptors just air gaps and backflow preventers.

Francis

 

[Glenn]

Sounds like a lot of stretching and "what if's" just to prove that you can prohibit something. Why?

Has there been an outbreak of catastrophe or injury due to these pot fillers? Just because someone might not close it tight, or it might start dripping and cause damage, is not a reason to prohibit everyone's architectural freedom. Lot's of stuff can go wrong in a house... it's called "$#it happens".

I can also stretch my hand held shower head out of the bathtub, my kitchen sprayer out of the sink, and even the kitchen faucet can swing out and spill on my countertop. Funny...my house seems to work just fine for me. If something goes wrong, I have insurance and I doubt anyone is going to be harmed.

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings,

Not going there. If someone wants a pot filler in their kitchen, go for it. I would have a real hard time telling someone that's prohibited. I say it's govt in your private domain. Butt out.

BS

 

[MASSDRIVER]

Greetings, Not going there. If someone wants a pot filler in their kitchen, go for it. I would have a real hard time telling someone that's prohibited. I say it's govt in your private domain. Butt out.

BS

Somewhat devil's advocate, but at some point it will need to be addressed because there are some legitimate issues. One is that you are taking something with a commercial application and using it in a residence. So What you say?

Well, in all restaurants there is a floor drain system to collect water from wherever it comes from, including a pot filler over a stove that may get forgotten and overfill. That protection is not there and could be a liability if you live in a multifloor situation. How about an accidental grease fire from turning the water on into a skillet?

Just sayin'

Brent.

 

[BSSTG]

Somewhat devil's advocate, but at some point it will need to be addressed because there are some legitimate issues. One is that you are taking something with a commercial application and using it in a residence. So What you say?Well, in all restaurants there is a floor drain system to collect water from wherever it comes from, including a pot filler over a stove that may get forgotten and overfill. That protection is not there and could be a liability if you live in a multifloor situation. How about an accidental grease fire from turning the water on into a skillet?

Just sayin'

Brent.

Good grief! Let's see, Ive got an energy code saying I have to put a fancy programmable tstat in a residence. Soon I can no longer use a regular stinking light bulb since I can't buy one. i cant' have commercial cooking equipment in my own frickin house. You know I don't have a problem with real life safety requirements to a certain exetent. But a whole bunch of these requirements for a persons castle are bunk.

i was in for some more code enforcemt training recently and some hoarding issues came up. Now I don't have a problem with telling someone they need to clean up their bull stools when you have a rat problem or it stinks. However, some pics presented in this class that was supposedly a probem really drew my ire. Just because someone has a bunch of books and magazines piled up and you think they are a slob (which they are) does not give code enfocement the right to call it a nuisance. I say they are a messy collector. It should not be against the law to be a messy person either. I'm sorry, some of this butting into other peoples business is getting out of hand with all of this code crap.

Bottom line is this, a man's home should be his castle, if he wants to air condition his attic, pile up massive piles of dirty dishes in his kitchen, have holes in his windows, roof, and siding, then so be it. If he owns the house and lives in it, I don't think anyone has any right to get on his case as long as he does not infringe on anothers rights. I might add that I have prosecuted hoarders too. And the only reason I did was cause it caused a real vermin problem. Other than that, I think it's out of bounds to prosecute those folks.

Now mind you I get upset over code requirments for R3's. Mixed occs are different in that obviously other folks or tenants are at risk. That's another ball of wax there. But even commercial occupancies, I feel that some of the code requirements are excessive. i will say that I am in the process of prosecuting a person for an illegal occupancy issue that's pretty bad. This person decides to build apartments in a commercial building without any adhearance to any codes whatsoever, no permits, nada. I don't have an issue with that since she has put a lot of people at risk for her own benefit.

Anyway, bottom line is that I think a lot of code enforcement folks go overboard way too much. That should be obvious to all of us in the business IMHO.

BS

 

[MASSDRIVER]

Anyway, bottom line is that I think a lot of code enforcement folks go overboard way too much. That should be obvious to all of us in the business IMHO.

BS

I agree some of the time, like arc fault interrupters. Hate those worthless things. But things that can perhaps affect others in the same building should at least be addressed.

Brent.

 

[BSSTG]

I agree some of the time, like arc fault interrupters. Hate those worthless things. But things that can perhaps affect others in the same building should at least be addressed. Brent.

I'm with you. I don't know where to draw the line all of the time. Bottom line is I really have mixed emotions on some of this stuff. But my main gripe is with single family dwellings. I was recently appalled at the energy code requirements for single family. I just tell folks I don't make the rules. It works some of the time!

BS

 

[mark handler]

Remember there are several codes in play here

Some are using the plumbing sections of residential code

Some are using state modified IPC

Some are using state modified UPC

There is no one answer that fits all

 

[mark handler]

Sounds like a lot of stretching and "what if's".

It is all about control

If they cannot find it in the Residential plumbing sections they stretch the IPC or UPC to grasp at control straws....

 

[lunatick]

= + =steveray,

I stand corrected too!......I did not see the requirement in the IPC,

Section 301.3 for every fixture to be connected to the san. sewer

system......In this AHJ, if this requirement were to be [ attempted

to be ] enforced, it would be quickly "not required" to have a drain

connection for the Pot Fillers!

Also, ...possibly one type of solution could be to install a counter

top type trench drain that one might see in a bar, to catch any

drips & wastes!

+ = +

floor sink below the range?

 

[lunatick]

If you got creative for the "drain" beneath this faucet. You could do a stone insert into a sink. So that only a gap is visible.

INFINITY DRAIN