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Why Pennsylvania Needs Statewide Licensing of Contractors

jar546

jar546

CBO
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
12,723
Location
Not where I really want to be
Pennsylvania does not have any competency based statewide licensing of building contractors, none of the trades whatsoever.
In Pennsylvania, if you just pay a $50 fee to the state and get an insurance policy (most are under $400) you can wake up in the morning and decide you are a contractor, no experience necessary. There are only a few cities that have any sort of competency based licensing and the Pennsylvania contractor registration law prohibits any municipalities from requiring competency based licensing if they did not already have a program prior to the contractor registration law.
Here are some examples of the great work performed for customers by Pennsylvania contractors:

Here you see the great double trap (an S and P trap all in one) done by quality Pennsylvania plumbers.
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This Pennsylvania contractor apparently is not aware of wind load requirements and instead just used whatever scraps of plywood he had on this job that was discovered without a permit.
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This Pennsylvania general contractor must not know about the 4" rule for step risers. I wonder what else he did not know if we were able to take a closer look at this newly installed deck.
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This was a brand-new house in the Poconos that had the windows improperly installed, no house-wrap and no flashing around the windows. On top of all this, the Pennsylvania homebuilder who did the work passed inspections by a Pennsylvania building inspector. The Pennsylvania legislators still don't think they need statewide licensing of contractors. You need a state license to cut hair but not build a house. You've got a friend in Pennsylvania.
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When you use a ridge board instead of a ridge beam and think you are going to have a great looking cathedral ceiling but instead have an unsafe, sagging structure. This is the result of not having any training or competency based licensing of contractors in Pennsylvania.
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When you screw up the foundation but still want to have a poured slab on the front porch and think it is OK to pour concrete against plywood on the outside of the house. This is a fine example of a mistake by the foundation contractor and the homebuilder in Pennsylvania.
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A lack of competency based licensing of contractors in Pennsylvania resulted in this pathetic plumbing installation through the studs of a bearing wall between the garage and interior of this new home. Pennsylvania builders pride.
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They inspect to code minimums; but don't require licences (go figure). Are inspectors tested and certified?
Imagine what property insurance policies must cost?
Lot of defect attorneys in Penn?
 
ADAguy said:
They inspect to code minimums; but don't require licences (go figure). Are inspectors tested and certified?
Imagine what property insurance policies must cost?
Lot of defect attorneys in Penn?
Click to expand...

In PA to be an inspector, you just need to pass the ICC exam for the category you are in. Since there is no statewide licensing of contractors, there is no real way to verify experience before becoming an inspector.
 
I don't know what you are talking about....In post 9, you need to be a really good plumber to bore that large of a hole that close to the edge of a stud without blowing it apart.....Or maybe just have good sharp holesaws...
 
You've got a friend in Pennsylvania.

I thought the new slogan was: "Pennsylvania, Pursue your Happiness!"
 
Steve ... look closely at the stud on the left, the one closer to the T. Or Y, whatever. Anyway ... do you see two concentric marks on the wood? Like maybe the holehawg bound up and spun the drill motor and the plumbers arm?
 
jar546 said:
A lack of competency based licensing of contractors in Pennsylvania resulted in this pathetic plumbing installation through the studs of a bearing wall between the garage and interior of this new home. Pennsylvania builders pride.
View attachment 6196
Click to expand...
What weird thing is going on with the nails at the stud to top plate?
 
jar546 said:
A lack of competency based licensing of contractors in Pennsylvania resulted in this pathetic plumbing installation through the studs of a bearing wall between the garage and interior of this new home. Pennsylvania builders pride.
View attachment 6196
Click to expand...

I wonder if any of the nails at the top actually catch, seems they all are coming through before catching the top boards on the studs
 
jar546 said:
A lack of competency based licensing of contractors in Pennsylvania resulted in this pathetic plumbing installation through the studs of a bearing wall between the garage and interior of this new home. Pennsylvania builders pride.
View attachment 6196
Click to expand...
The nailing to the top plate is perfection as well. I mean who needs them to actually stick into the wood.
 
Kind of looks like a single top plate with a layer(s) of OSB on top. Which makes the plate splice even more wonderful.

Anyway, that stuff happens everywhere! I have worked in states that have licensing and saw the exact same stuff. It helps me feel better about being a government drone when I see this stuff, but it always embarrasses as a contractor.

We see more in strong markets because people will hire anybody just to get a little work done. Also, many (most?) consumers hire the cheapest bid, then wonder why the work is #$%. My sympathy dries up a little when I make that realization.
 
I was a handyman in PA before I became an inspector. Flipped houses, built decks, electrical, plumbing. When the state decided to have building codes in 2004 I took some courses and learned a whole lot about what I did wrong. But it did not matter before 2004. Still no permits required for existing homes unless doing something load bearing. No permit required for anything at all for new or existing accessory buildings less than 1,000 sq. ft or anything at all that that is LP gas related.

At least the LP gas guys need to have a cert. Got one myself just by watching a 10 min video on how to do a pressure test.
 
I held off posting at first but then I just couldn't keep quite anymore, To me most states Contractor Licensing is a joke because none of them really take into account producing quality work, just that someone can fill out a questioner and has had time served and can clear a so called background check on their personal financial affairs.
  1. In my 30 plus years in the industry it is funny how I have spent the majority of my time being called in on projects in trouble designed by those with licenses to design projects, Architects and Engineers to start with, how many projects designed by them everyday have major mistakes in the design?
  2. How many of the so called Licensed Contractors do work everyday and fail their inspections and do shabby work. Paper Plaques mean nothing in a free market.
  3. Lets go back to our accountant that gained the highest level certification's for being an inspector with less than 3 years on the job. Paper is just paper.
  4. The amount of issues I have seen on projects in states like Maryland, where you need to basically have 3 kids and use them as collateral to get your contractors license, the amount of paperwork and requirements you have to put on the table, well seems more like China than the United States in my opinion. Cali and some of the other states like them also pull the same joker information and it does little for quality, its a perceived quality of work, but I don't see the difference and that meight be because I only work on problem projects, after the problems show there head.
  5. To me they produce very little better product pool, they just end up having more off book projects going down and so many more DYI issues.
  6. Requirements like in PA & NJ to me are reasonable, basic background check, Get their information, verify insurance and that you are an established hard location. If a client has an issue they report to the state and the License is pulled.
  7. Here is a question for you, if the IRC is a paint by numbers code that allows for proper construction, why does a contractor need to have a Licensed architect draw basic plans for simple homes prescribed in the so called book? How about decks?
  8. Lastly if you think the licensed contractors are so much better I think you need to take a second look, Jar you noted the foundation screw up with the pour below grade for poured porch slab, my question is, how was it drawn on the prints?
I am not a fan of heavy contractor licensing laws with high level restrictions, especially having to open your financial records.

State like MD & Cali to me over step, states like PA & NJ, well they should require both residential and commercial contractors to at least register to be able to pull a permit. The balance is probably someplace in between, but I doubt work quality will go up, how many shady lawyers and doctors are there with Licenses?
 
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