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Would you allow this interlock kit?

jar546 said:
This was not the first or even second time that an inspector was attempting to make a homeowner a "qualified" individual to bypass a code requirement with an exception intended for truly qualified individuals such as maintenance personnel.
In order to be a qualified person one must set through a safety class of at least 4 hours and in this short time limit the class will address only one thing. Then you MIGHT be a qualified person but reading instructions in no way makes someone qualified.

As an electrical inspector I hang my head in shame. It hurts my heart deeply that there are people out there that have the public’s safety in their hands that has no clue of what they are doing. They think that if they can do 30 inspections a day they have accomplished something special when the truth of the matter is, if they do only one inspection correctly then they have accomplished something.

As a contractor I say the same thing I have been saying for 45 years. Inspectors are the biggest joke that has ever been pulled on the public. It would be my guess that less than 10% of the inspectors out there today are qualified to do what they get paid for.
 
jwelectric said:
In order to be a qualified person one must set through a safety class of at least 4 hours and in this short time limit the class will address only one thing. Then you MIGHT be a qualified person but reading instructions in no way makes someone qualified.As an electrical inspector I hang my head in shame. It hurts my heart deeply that there are people out there that have the public’s safety in their hands that has no clue of what they are doing. They think that if they can do 30 inspections a day they have accomplished something special when the truth of the matter is, if they do only one inspection correctly then they have accomplished something.

As a contractor I say the same thing I have been saying for 45 years. Inspectors are the biggest joke that has ever been pulled on the public. It would be my guess that less than 10% of the inspectors out there today are qualified to do what they get paid for.
We could say that about most Government employees.
 
jwelectric said:
In order to be a qualified person one must set through a safety class of at least 4 hours and in this short time limit the class will address only one thing. Then you MIGHT be a qualified person but reading instructions in no way makes someone qualified.As an electrical inspector I hang my head in shame. It hurts my heart deeply that there are people out there that have the public’s safety in their hands that has no clue of what they are doing. They think that if they can do 30 inspections a day they have accomplished something special when the truth of the matter is, if they do only one inspection correctly then they have accomplished something.

As a contractor I say the same thing I have been saying for 45 years. Inspectors are the biggest joke that has ever been pulled on the public. It would be my guess that less than 10% of the inspectors out there today are qualified to do what they get paid for.
Four hours of training on safety makes one a qualified person? Qualified to do what exactly? Is installing anything included with that training or is all about ionized air? Does the training include running with scissors?

The entire concept of "Qualified Person" is misunderstood. It's usually a qualified person that dropped out the factory's 2000 amp service. Then again they are out there that understand ionized air.

The housewife here isn't performing service with this interlock. The housewife didn't install the kit. The housewife already knows about scissors.

The housewife, if she reads the instructions, is better qualified to operate the interlock than is the qualified person that's not required to have any knowledge about it, or the electrical trade beyond safety.

Then you MIGHT be a qualified person
Wait a minute....you said that a four hour class is what's required....is this what you meant? "It would be my guess that less than 10% of the" electricians "out there today are qualified to do what they get paid for".

If not that, did you mean that "qualified persons" aren't electricians? Shirley they aren't housewives.

They think that if they can do 30 inspections a day they have accomplished something special when the truth of the matter is, if they do only one inspection correctly then they have accomplished something.
Was this a divine revelation of the truth? We are so bad that lucidity once every thirty inspections is a great day?

It would be my guess that less than 10% of the inspectors out there today are qualified to do what they get paid for.
And you keep plugging away at it don't you. And for 45 years. Wow! You are stubborn. Given 45 years and only ten percent of the inspectors know **** from Shinola.....Experience wise, that puts you where?....ten years, four and a half times?

Guess again.

As an electrical inspector I hang my head in shame.
Say it ain't so Joe...say it ain't so.

It hurts my heart deeply that there are people out there that have the public’s safety in their hands that has no clue of what they are doing.
Man overboard....there's sharks in the water....quick now...shoot the poor fool before he's taken alive.

Inspectors are the biggest joke that has ever been pulled on the public.
It's a little late for flattery but I do admit to being entertaining.
 
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jar546 said:
This was not the first or even second time that an inspector was attempting to make a homeowner a "qualified" individual to bypass a code requirement with an exception intended for truly qualified individuals such as maintenance personnel.
Dang...I hate coming in turd.
 
I've been thinking and decided that I really should pay attention to you guys and henceforth I will ask to meet the qualified person with regularity. And not just on electrical inspections either. If it's good enough for electrical, it's good enough for all trades. I'll get a better feel for the work and if they present a plumber with diarrhea I'll know that they don't know and I'll say no.

It would be a kick if diarrhea is a blue word on your computer. That's a history for you.

jwelectric said:
Is this site a joke or something?
And the answer is.........I know Shinola when I see it...........that's something...no joke ... even I am surprised.....now what's this ankle deep brown stuff? .. Uh Oh..I need to go.....somewhere else
 
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jwelectric said:
i'm all ears, care to explain or is this going to take to much of your time and you can't do 30 half a** inspections to make yourself look silly?
Did you understand that or do I need to slow it down for you.
 
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Mike,

ICE did say:

[My advice to those that would use this kit is, "Don't hurt yourself". ]
 
The interlock looks pretty foolproof it it is installed properly. As long as you can't turn on the main while the back fed generator breaker is on, where is the danger?

If I was looking for a dangerous situation, I would be looking at how this is terminated at the generator end. (like a Romex poking out a hole in the wall with a twist lock plug on it)

Most dangerous is the cord/cable set up so you have to run the generator in the garage. It happens.
 
I have been in the business for over 20 years and I am not sure who a "qualified person" is in regard to the citations in the NEC.

Is it that janitor who calls himself the building electrician?

Where I worked I had park rangers who fancied themselves as electricians (perfectly legal).

An inspection there was as much instruction as inspection.

It is not even as simple as having credentials. If every card carrying journeyman did a perfect job every time, inspectors would never have to write violations.
 
gfretwell said:
I have been in the business for over 20 years and I am not sure who a "qualified person" is in regard to the citations in the NEC. Is it that janitor who calls himself the building electrician?

Where I worked I had park rangers who fancied themselves as electricians (perfectly legal).

An inspection there was as much instruction as inspection.

It is not even as simple as having credentials. If every card carrying journeyman did a perfect job every time, inspectors would never have to write violations.
Well said.
 
gfretwell said:
I have been in the business for over 20 years and I am not sure who a "qualified person" is in regard to the citations in the NEC.
Holding an electrical license or calling oneself an electrician does in no way make them a qualified person as outlined by NFPA. Being a certified electrical inspector in no way makes someone qualified. In some cases an electrical inspector is the least qualified on a job. When the term qualified person is mentioned in the NEC the following is what is being talked about and not a housewife.

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.

Informational Note: Refer to NFPA 70E-2009, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety training requirements.

110.2 Training Requirements.

(A) Safety Training. The training requirements contained in this section shall apply to employees who face a risk of electrical hazard that is not reduced to a safe level by the applicable electrical installation requirements. Such employees shall be trained to understand the specific hazards associated with electrical energy. They shall be trained in safety-related work practices and procedural requirements, as necessary, to provide protection from the electrical hazards associated with their respective job or task assignments. Employees shall be trained to identify and understand the relationship between electrical hazards and possible injury.

Informational Note: For further information concerning installation requirements, see NFPA 70®, National Electrical Code®.

(B) Type of Training. The training required by this section shall be classroom or on-the-job type, or a combination of the two. The degree of training provided shall be determined by the risk to the employee.

© Emergency Procedures. Employees exposed to shock hazards and those employees responsible for taking action in case of emergency shall be trained in methods of release of victims from contact with exposed energized electrical conductors or circuit parts. Employees shall be regularly instructed in methods of first aid and emergency procedures, such as approved methods of resuscitation, if their duties warrant such training. Training of employees in approved methods of resuscitation, including cardiopulmonary resuscitation and automatic external defibrillator (AED) use, shall be certified by the employer annually.

(D) Employee Training.

(1) Qualified Person. A qualified person shall be trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of equipment or a specific work method and be trained to recognize and avoid the electrical hazards that might be present with respect to that equipment or work method.

(a) Such persons shall also be familiar with the proper use of the special precautionary techniques; personal protective equipment including arc flash suit; insulating and shielding materials; and insulated tools and test equipment. A person can be considered qualified with respect to certain equipment and methods but still be unqualified for others.

(b) Such persons permitted to work within the limited approach boundary of exposed energized electrical conductors and circuit parts operating at 50 volts or more shall, at a minimum, be additionally trained in all of the following:

(1) Skills and techniques necessary to distinguish exposed energized electrical conductors and circuit parts from other parts of electrical equipment

(2) Skills and techniques necessary to determine the nominal voltage of exposed energized electrical conductors and circuit parts

(3) Approach distances specified in Table 130.4©(a) and Table 130.4©(b) and the corresponding voltages to which the qualified person will be exposed

(4) Decision-making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning necessary to perform the task safely

© An employee who is undergoing on-the-job training for the purpose of obtaining the skills and knowledge necessary to be considered a qualified person and who, in the course of such training, has demonstrated an ability to perform specific duties safely at his or her level of training, and who is under the direct supervision of a qualified person, shall be considered to be a qualified person for the performance of those specific duties.

(d) Tasks that are performed less often than once per year shall require retraining before the performance of the work practices involved.

(e) Employees shall be trained to select an appropriate voltage detector and shall demonstrate how to use a device to verify the absence of voltage, including interpreting indications provided by the device. The training shall include information that enables the employee to understand all limitations of each specific voltage detector that might be used.

(f) The employer shall determine, through regular supervision or through inspections conducted on at least an annual basis, that each employee is complying with the safety-related work practices required by this standard.

(2) Unqualified Persons. Unqualified persons shall be trained in, and be familiar with, any electrical safety-related practices necessary for their safety.

(3) Retraining. An employee shall receive additional training (or retraining) under any of the following conditions:

(1) If the supervision or annual inspections indicate that the employee is not complying with the safety-related work practices

(2) If new technology, new types of equipment, or changes in procedures necessitate the use of safety-related work practices that are different from those that the employee would normally use

(3) If he or she must employ safety-related work practices that are not normally used during his or her regular job duties

Retraining shall be performed at intervals not to exceed 3 years.

(E) Training Documentation. The employer shall document that each employee has received the training required by 110.2(D). This documentation shall be made when the employee demonstrates proficiency in the work practices involved and shall be maintained for the duration of the employee’s employment. The documentation shall contain the content of the training, each employee’s name, and dates of training.
 
Greetings,

Yea I see a lot of electricians that aren't qualified either. They're out there messing up stuff pretty bad sometime. I've run into some installs that could have blown up and caused great damage or injury several times. I'm afraid that it goes both ways and it's not likely to change. Truth be known, I've been a master electrician for a real long time and I get stumped on inspections from time to time. Doesn't bother me much. We just do the best we can.

have a great evening!

BS
 
BSSTG said:
Greetings,Yea I see a lot of electricians that aren't qualified either. They're out there messing up stuff pretty bad sometime. I've run into some installs that could have blown up and caused great damage or injury several times. I'm afraid that it goes both ways and it's not likely to change. Truth be known, I've been a master electrician for a real long time and I get stumped on inspections from time to time. Doesn't bother me much. We just do the best we can.

have a great evening!

BS
So what do you think about this kit?
 
Two part response

1. on the kit. On the surface it passes the KISS standard for a residential. Though a picture doesn't tell if it is fool proof or could otherwise fail.

2. what do the panel mfr's say about modifying the panel. Does this void the warranty (realize this isn't code, but sometimes code falls back on the UL restriction.

3. testing?

Then there is the whole reciting of code sections, and I am left wondering if some of these requirements are a bit misplaced. 4 hours of training.

When I see this Kit I think it is going on a residential panel and not a commercial installation.
 
lunatick said:
2. what do the panel mfr's say about modifying the panel. Does this void the warranty (realize this isn't code, but sometimes code falls back on the UL restriction.
And here are the UL restrictions;FTCN.GuideInfo

Engine Generators for Portable Use

This category covers internal-combustion-engine-driven generators rated 15 kW or less, 250 V or less, which are provided only with receptacle outlets for the ac output circuits. The generators may incorporate alternating- or direct-current generator sections for supplying energy to battery-charging circuits.

When a portable generator is used to supply a building or structure wiring system:

1. The generator is considered a separately derived system in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC).

2. The generator is intended to be connected through permanently installed Listed transfer equipment that switches all conductors other than the equipment grounding conductor.

3. The frame of a Listed generator is connected to the equipment-grounding conductor and the grounded (neutral) conductor of the generator. When properly connected to a premises or structure wiring system, the portable generator will be connected to the premises or structure grounding electrode for its ground reference.

4. Portable generators used other than to power building or structure wiring systems are intended to be connected to ground if required by the NEC.

No this interlock kit does not work for a portable generator at all
 
jwelectric said:
I was just trying to point out just how un-qualified most electrical inspectors are.
Ouch-- EC's are just as unqualified, IMO. I have seen some inspectors who could mop the floor with most EC's in term of NEC knowledge. I have to give most of those guys a lot of credit being they are trying to do all the trades and we only have one trade to study and still can't quite get it.
 
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