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What happens if a city approves a deck that seems to violate fire codes

So in the original picture, its his garage on the left and his house on the right, and he is filling the space with deck?

Yes - the city permitted the whole space to be filled with deck except over the steps that go to his basement. I personally think it would have been better to cover the basement steps as it saves shoveling snow.
 
Ouch! an interesting point has been brought up by JC. Google your HOA and note how many have decks extend into the rear yards. How many extend further then allowed? Note that it appears that one beyond the one next to yours appears to have a cover over it extending even further then the one next to you?

On the point of the one beyond - it's an end unit that only has a side yard and no rear yard. I don't know when the thing on the side was built but it was not permitted by the HOA or the city.

http://imgsafe.org/image/67c1f78361
 
Some jurisdictions will have conditions for development recorded on the face of the plat. Just a way to get rules and regulations permanently recorded.

Our city has the ordinance for PDs:

(i) Notwithstanding the above provision, if the development has subdivided one- family lots which abut other parcels of land, the specific zone regulations shall apply for rear and side yard setbacks on the subdivided lots. The required setback area shall be landscaped.

Since our development is R2PD that means we'd follow the R2 rules - am I correct? If this is the case then they have violated at least 4 of the R2 ordinances. I could understand one but 4 seems like they hadn't had their coffee that day!
 
You can also to an open records request for any permits issued and

Any inspections done.

That might be some interesting reading.

I just received the GRAMA report and no inspections were ever done. Is this unusual?
 
Typically (meaning, these observations are not universal but are most-always true):

When it comes to dealing with the City, any HOA requirements don't matter - the City has no jurisdiction and indeed, no duty, to enforce any HOA and/or subdivision covenants and/or agreements. Those are entirely between owners and the HOA's.

If this is a PUD - a Planned Unit Development - then it's an animal of its own. When a PUD is created, the owner of the development and the City enter into an agreement that creates specific rules/arrangements for that particular development, and generally negates the rest of the City new-construction zoning ordinances. The owner typically agrees to build to such and such code, follow such and such setbacks, make lots such and such size, install such and such utilities, etc., and in return the City usually agrees to pick up the installation of the rest of the utilities, or pours the sidewalks for them, or builds the streets, or builds a park, etc. So it's not at all anything like a typical subdivision. Only the rules specific to this particular PUD that the City approved/adopted are the ones that you (and your neighbor) will follow. The entire rest of the zoning code (probably) does not apply, only the rules written and recorded when the PUD was adopted.

Just as an example to show you how jacked up PUD agreements can be - we have a newish PUD here (that was signed before I started here, thankfully) which is built on the 1999 BOCA building code at a time when my City was enforcing the 2009 IBC.

All that to say - don't go quoting the City code to any City officials or any City boards before knowing that what you're quoting applies. If your house is in a traditional PUD, whatever is in the general zoning regs. probably doesn't matter.


And I still don't know why you care how big the neighbors deck is. There's no way that deck makes your half of the townhouse worth any less money.
 
Yup. should of at least had a footing inspection by now.

Given that the deck is now complete and in use how can they inspect the footings? Also, shouldn't they have done an original inspection as the setbacks were not indicated on the plans?
 
Typically (meaning, these observations are not universal but are most-always true):

When it comes to dealing with the City, any HOA requirements don't matter - the City has no jurisdiction and indeed, no duty, to enforce any HOA and/or subdivision covenants and/or agreements. Those are entirely between owners and the HOA's.

If this is a PUD - a Planned Unit Development - then it's an animal of its own. When a PUD is created, the owner of the development and the City enter into an agreement that creates specific rules/arrangements for that particular development, and generally negates the rest of the City new-construction zoning ordinances. The owner typically agrees to build to such and such code, follow such and such setbacks, make lots such and such size, install such and such utilities, etc., and in return the City usually agrees to pick up the installation of the rest of the utilities, or pours the sidewalks for them, or builds the streets, or builds a park, etc. So it's not at all anything like a typical subdivision. Only the rules specific to this particular PUD that the City approved/adopted are the ones that you (and your neighbor) will follow. The entire rest of the zoning code (probably) does not apply, only the rules written and recorded when the PUD was adopted.

Just as an example to show you how jacked up PUD agreements can be - we have a newish PUD here (that was signed before I started here, thankfully) which is built on the 1999 BOCA building code at a time when my City was enforcing the 2009 IBC.

All that to say - don't go quoting the City code to any City officials or any City boards before knowing that what you're quoting applies. If your house is in a traditional PUD, whatever is in the general zoning regs. probably doesn't matter.


And I still don't know why you care how big the neighbors deck is. There's no way that deck makes your half of the townhouse worth any less money.

I respectfully disagree. His deck runs the entire length of our shared fence line and does not comply with zoning. My neighbor can now see in all of my windows from his deck as it extends out so far (see attached link) and I suspect that is why there are zoning laws in the first place.

http://imgsafe.org/image/691efdf951
 
I'm just being ornery, but if this hint tells us who the "former Senator" is then I hope Jane wins this deal. My opinion of him is formed solely from the news, but it's not very high...

My opinion of him is firsthand and he is ok so long as he's getting what he wants. Politically he is planning a run for POTUS 2020. He wants to buy my house and has been putting a lot of pressure on me to sell (at a reduced price). When we had termites he refused to pay his share of the costs until the previous HOA put a lien on his house. He wouldn't let me see the deck plans but assured me that the deck would increase MY property value!!! Thanks for the support - I hope I win too as I can't imagine what this place would be like if everyone built a deck that size. Most people are more neighborly than that and would buy a single family dwelling if they needed a deck that size.
 
Yes - the city permitted the whole space to be filled with deck except over the steps that go to his basement. I personally think it would have been better to cover the basement steps as it saves shoveling snow.


I think there is something about exiting under a deck, or cover. Not allowed
 
I just received the GRAMA report and no inspections were ever done. Is this unusual?


If the there was a permit issued for the work, than normally at least one inspection is done.

Of course sometime the problem is, the contractor/ home owner does not bother to call for an inspection, and sometimes the city is to busy, or does not care, so no inspection is ever done.
 
I would pass this on to the nice counsel person, to ask WHY

I did that. I also included the Mayor, the State Ombudsman, and the city attorney. It seems to me that no one was doing their job on this project - or it was a favor for a friend :(
 
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If the there was a permit issued for the work, than normally at least one inspection is done.

Of course sometime the problem is, the contractor/ home owner does not bother to call for an inspection, and sometimes the city is to busy, or does not care, so no inspection is ever done.

Does this invalidate the permit?
 
Given that the deck is now complete and in use how can they inspect the footings? Also, shouldn't they have done an original inspection as the setbacks were not indicated on the plans?
I would not worry yourself with their footings. Doing so slowly moves you from a concerned neighbor worried about fire spread to an angry neighbor looking for anyway to enact revenge on something you don't like. Tread carefully...you don't want to appear as the latter...
 
I would not worry yourself with their footings. Doing so slowly moves you from a concerned neighbor worried about fire spread to an angry neighbor looking for anyway to enact revenge on something you don't like. Tread carefully...you don't want to appear as the latter...

Good point - I am angry with the city for not doing its job but if they just correct it that would be nice. I'm not an angry person though and you're right - I need to be careful that I don't portray myself as a vengeful neighbor. I'll go back into my nice calm world once this debacle is over - whatever way it turns out.
 
Does this invalidate the permit?



No

Just work done and never inspected

Since kind of the only person that cares, is the one who had the work done and is sipping a drink on the deck.



Like a student turning in homework and never graded.
 
No

Just work done and never inspected

Since kind of the only person that cares, is the one who had the work done and is sipping a drink on the deck.



Like a student turning in homework and never graded.

So, I've had a bit of an "email chat" with the city attorney and he has said (Reader's Digest version) that our homes are not subject to any zoning since lot coverage rules were not applied in our original PD.(This is not true as the city rules say that, once developed, the PD is subject to R2 zoning. He also said that since the garages to the rear of my property are lawful nonconforming structures that the deck is just an addition to that and therefore is allowed. He basically said (and actually said) that if you have one nonconforming structure on your property then it's basically fair game to add more nonconforming structures. Now, I may only teach math but my brain is telling me that he is not correct?
 
He also said that since the garages to the rear of my property are lawful nonconforming structures that the deck is just an addition to that and therefore is allowed.
Thats BS smoke screen logic. Did the attorney used to work for an S&L in the 80’s? If the deck were attached to the garage there would be some logic, but it's attached to the fully-conforming house.

I agree about not raising the issue of no inspections during construction, but to answer your question about post mortem footing inspection ... all it takes is a shovel. You couldnt tell if the correct rebar is inside (if any is required) but you could easily tell if they are deep enough.
 
Thats BS smoke screen logic. Did the attorney used to work for an S&L in the 80’s? If the deck were attached to the garage there would be some logic, but it's attached to the fully-conforming house.

I agree about not raising the issue of no inspections during construction, but to answer your question about post mortem footing inspection ... all it takes is a shovel. You couldnt tell if the correct rebar is inside (if any is required) but you could easily tell if they are deep enough.

Ha! Since I'm not in the building profession I don't get the S&L reference but feel free to fill me in. I'm not sure a shovel would help with the footings since they apparently used 86 60lb bags of cement! There may be bodies under that deck! :)
 
My opinion of him is firsthand and he is ok so long as he's getting what he wants. Politically he is planning a run for POTUS 2020. He wants to buy my house and has been putting a lot of pressure on me to sell (at a reduced price). When we had termites he refused to pay his share of the costs until the previous HOA put a lien on his house. He wouldn't let me see the deck plans but assured me that the deck would increase MY property value!!! Thanks for the support - I hope I win too as I can't imagine what this place would be like if everyone built a deck that size. Most people are more neighborly than that and would buy a single family dwelling if they needed a deck that size.

The Donald might help.
 
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