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An average day

jar546 said:
As someone who has worked in PA where there is no licensing and Florida where there is strict licensing, yes, there is a difference in many ways but not in all ways. Whenever you have good quality building code enforcement, you have better contractors. Whenever you have weak code enforcement such as multi-discipline inspectors or simple ignorance, then you still have many of the same problems. When your state license is highly valued and difficult to attain, you are more likely to protect it by making sure your work is done right. In PA, however, you just move on to the next town when you are a bad contractor. There are a lot of guys that live in WB or Scranton and never worked in those cities because they have actual competency based licensing.
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I take umbrage with your characterization of multiple-discipline inspectors as not qualified. I am one. I work with several. While I lack the breadth of electrical code knowledge that you possess, I can hold my own for what I am called to accomplish. You’re in the wrong forum to be throwing stones at inspectors.
 
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ICE said:
You’re in the wrong forum to be throwing stones at inspectors.
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Ice
Did you forget he owns the forum.
Seriously though he is correct that sometimes multi-disciplined inspectors will get in over their heads in a field they could use more knowledge or training in.
Even within the building code discipline I have one who's framing code knowledge far superior to the others and another who's expertise is concrete and masonry. Each one do both types of inspections however when one is getting in over his head they will call on the other to ride along and it becomes a training inspection.
One of the benefits of a smaller department with adequate staff and a small geographic area to cover.
 
ICE said:
A circuit that requires AFCI elsewhere in the code has been modified with an additional device.
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Yes, agree. So this was the extension of a branch circuit that serves the interior of the home and the addition of a device outside on said circuit, therefore not meeting the exception?
 
ICE said:
I take umbrage with you characterization of multiple-discipline inspectors as not qualified. I am one. I work with several. While I lack the breadth of electrical code knowledge that you possess, I can hold my own for what I am called to accomplish. You’re in the wrong forum to be throwing stones at inspectors.
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You can take umbrage all you want. By your own admission and my own professional experience, we are not as competent in all disciplines as someone who is a specialist in that field. OK, for single family homes, a multi-discipline inspector can certainly "hold their own" but still not to the level of a specialist that only does one discipline. No way, no how.
I personally hold 16 certification with the ICC and have since 2009. Big deal, I am good at taking tests and know how to use a book. Yes, I have experience in construction with framing and remodeling and especially electrical, but not plumbing or mechanical and when you get into residential generators, more complicated services and commercial or industrial projects, that is where the difference starts to take place.

I have extensive electrical experience as an electrician from the most basic residential to the more complex industrial motor controls and large 14,400 transformers and switchgear. When I had to do it all as a multi-discipline inspector I lost my edge with electrical and knew I was limited with mechanical because I never had experience doing the job. When you arrive do to a plumbing, mechanical, electrical and structural inspection on one jobsite, how do you not get sidetracked?

I am a much, much better electrical inspector now that I am only doing electrical. The problem with multi-discipline inspectors is that they don't know what they don't know and tend to focus only on what they are familiar with. Electrical, for example can be extremely complicated at times, especially since not every single thing the electrician is going to do is in the approved plans. So yeah, you might be a great multi-discipline inspector or 'jack of all trades' but maybe only a 'master of one'
 
mtlogcabin said:
Ice
Did you forget he owns the forum.
Seriously though he is correct that sometimes multi-disciplined inspectors will get in over their heads in a field they could use more knowledge or training in.
Even within the building code discipline I have one who's framing code knowledge far superior to the others and another who's expertise is concrete and masonry. Each one do both types of inspections however when one is getting in over his head they will call on the other to ride along and it becomes a training inspection.
One of the benefits of a smaller department with adequate staff and a small geographic area to cover.
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Whether or not I run this forum has no relevance to my opinion. I should be held to the same standard as everyone else when I post. In this case, I don't believe I did anything but point out the uncomfortable and honest truth about what I myself had to do in the past, do it all. Yes, I did it well but not as good as I should have or could have if I were a specialist in just 1 trade, maybe 2 at the most.
 
Let me take this one step further with a personal experience on the job. I follow behind a multi discipline inspector on occasion and have to perform reinspections from his previous inspections. Here is one example. I was there to do a final on a generator install for a SFR. The previous write up was for not having glue on a pvc fitting where the conduit went from the meter to the new ATS. I could have looked at that and walked away but since my name will be on the final, I took a closer look and this is what I wrote up that he missed:
1) The conduit he wrote up was above the level of live parts and had no sealing rings or sealing locknuts.
2) The neutral and grounds were tied together at the generator.
3) He made them add a ground rod for the generator. Not required by code nor the installation instructions.
4) The generator was undersized for the load calculations and lacked load shedding.
5) The installation did not match the approved plans.

I have a lot more stories but I'll leave it at that.
 
jar546 said:
OK, for single family homes, a multi-discipline inspector can certainly "hold their own" but still not to the level of a specialist that only does one discipline.


When I had to do it all as a multi-discipline inspector I lost my edge with electrical and knew I was limited with mechanical because I never had experience doing the job. When you arrive do to a plumbing, mechanical, electrical and structural inspection on one jobsite, how do you not get sidetracked?

So yeah, you might be a great multi-discipline inspector or 'jack of all trades' but maybe only a 'master of one'
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It is a mistake to think that you are at the top of the pile and if you struggled Shirley must we all.
 
ICE said:
It is a mistake to think that you are at the top of the pile and if you struggled Shirley must we all.
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No, not at the top of the pile but I and many of us have seen it time and time again. There are a few smaller areas that have a BO which is allowed to do all the inspection if they have a population <50,000. It is not just me or my opinion, we have all seen the result of the one man show, one stop shop. It is not as good as you think and I was not as good as I thought for the almost 10 years I did it. Think what you want, specialists have more knowledge than your average multi discipline inspector. Broward County, for example will not allow multi-discipline inspectors....period. You can only inspect the trade you were licensed in as a contractor.
 
No one is saying you are not doing a good job, especially if you are sticking with one family dwellings but if it is your jurisdiction and you have a hospital with 3 generators and emergency systems with 2 separate services, you are in over your head. Residential is like the kindergarten of electrical and I mean that no matter how it may sound. It is the truth.
 
It might be important to understand that most communities cannot afford inspectors dedicated to a single trade and that multi-discipline inspectors, as flawed as they may be, are better than nothing. Most of us know this, but it needs repeated.

Sometimes I question if contractors are using inspectors as a crutch. I've heard: "how do you want this done" many times. When I respond with code complaint, I usually get: "well when I work in <geographical area>, they always tell me how they want it done". It's not that I don't like helping people. I really do. When a contractor gets stuck, I usually tell them how I've seen it done other places. Add in some positives and negatives and the contractor can pick whatever way works best for them. but, I've literally had a contractor ask me how I wanted the house built.

It should be the contractor's responsibility to seek out education. Not to blindly keep doing things until someone stops them because it is too dangerous.

If I waited for someone to tell me what I was missing in my inspections, I'd be seeing the inside of a courtroom a lot.
 
I will admit that I have wrote corrections and upon reinspection found things i missed the first time due to my focus on the correction that jumped out on my first look. Also have missed things on framing due to contractor complaining about the corrections and upon return find them. I will also say that most of the time the most noticeable ones are the most dangerous.

We are all human and by no means perfect, if I do a plbg. or mech RI for the other inspector I may miss something, hopefully not to major.
 
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I recently noticed while doing a rough-in inspection that the contractor did not strap the top plates on both sides and install some "X"-bracing per approved plans.

On the re-inspection I noticed that only one stud was supporting that double top plate, when I looked further, two floor joist were bearing on the same double plate. The contractor had no problem at all adding additional studs below the double plate.

Went back to re-re-inspect the work in that area, and requested that they put additional nails in the "X" bracing.

On the re-re-re-inspection I signed off.

While doing the multiple trade inspections It happens


jar546 said:
Residential is like the kindergarten of electrical
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I carry big red and black crayons!
 
We all miss things, even when we are specialized. Yes, I realize that sometimes this is a budgetary issue and things simple "are what they are." I by no means am dissing anyone, just being honest and pointing out the obvious that everyone knows but don't not like to talk about. We all do the best we can with the knowledge and certifications that we have. It is always much easier when you only have one discipline to look at. I think the real issue is knowing when you are in over your head and asking for help vs just passing something because you just don't know any better and it looks good.
 
I am not sure this would be an acceptable method for the protection of wiring. Technically there is no notching or boring but we all know what the trimmer is going to do on this ceiling to wall intersection.
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Other than the fact that the large one on the right is not covered ... looks like a half-a$$ attempt to satisfy the inspector. It has Fail written all over it.
 
Con ... i assume you mean MC not BX ... and i think 330.17 requires it to be protected or recessed a certain distance.
 
The old BX (The NEC calls it AC) usually had galvanized steel armor. MC is more common now, and most that I have seen has an aluminum jacket which isn't much heavier gauge than a beer can, so it wouldn't offer much more resistance to a nail than NM.
 
Im an old guy too, and i still call it BX ... my electrician rolls his eyes every time. And i still talk about iinstalling VAT on the floor. I think what killed BX was the lack of a ground wire. And the new stuff has to be cheaper or t wont sell.
 
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