An average day

[ICE]

 

[e hilton]

Not enough paint cleaned off. Why would you put the wire under the clamp ... it’s deforming the pipe.

 

[steveray]

Not enough paint cleaned off. Why would you put the wire under the clamp ... it’s deforming the pipe.

Double bonding...Only the best electricians do it....

 

[SCBO1]

I've seen that done once before and questioned if it met the code, my thought was, "It's bonded!"

As far as this install, I question if enough paint has been removed, is it safe, is there enough protection from damage, is it before the first fitting and I would still question if it meets the manufactures installation requirements which I believe it does not.

 

[ICE]

I frequently encounter an electrician that got ahead of himself with the stucco lath. Many times the patchwork is done. The reason for removing lath for an inspection is exemplified in this case. Since I an performing virtual inspections I rely on pictures. The contractors think that their work is going to pass inspection so they take pictures and continue with the work.



The clamps are not listed for "as many as you can get in" and they are supposed to be grabbing the cable "snugly". Snugly might not be in your code.



The picture is blurry but you can see that the cable is against the screw. I have seen the screw chew through insulation and short. Note that one screw is bottomed out and the other is not due to the cable being pinched




This next picture puts it over the top.

 

[ICE]

The CSST is connected to T that is on the end of iron pipe. The bonding jumper is connected to the T. I tried to explain why this is wrong to the plumber and the general contractor. I really did try but they just weren't having it. Then the plumber raised his voice in anger.

 

[e hilton]

Can you explain to a non-plumber why thats wrong. And when he raised his voice ... was the inspection over?

 

[ICE]

Can you explain to a non-plumber why thats wrong. And when he raised his voice ... was the inspection over?

This is the picture that was provided:



Notice that the bonding jumper follows the CSST and is close to the CSST. CSST is supposed to be kept away from metal...especially grounded metal. Initially, I didn't notice that there appears to be two improperly placed pipe clamps. Improperly placed on a not round pipe but a faceted surface of a tee. Why there are two leads of solid #6 wire was never explained.

The inspection was over before the plumber arrived. The job is a whole house remodel with a relocated kitchen, flush beams and a different floor plan. When I called the general contractor to initiate the ZOOM virtual inspection he said all the trade people were there except the plumber. I said OH well here we go. I sent him the ZOOM request and he did not respond. I waited a while with nothing and then called him. He said that he hadn't received the email. I said look again and in two minutes I am off to another inspection. Miracles happen and all of a sudden we were connected with a ZOOM inspection.

Just as we were getting done the plumber shows up. His part of the inspection was just corrections from a previous inspection. But he wants to do his inspection again. The CSST bonding was installed because of a correction. When I brought that up at the first inspection the plumber all but called me an idiot...."I have never been given that correction before." "You can't make stuff up just to screw with me." "Where is that in the code?"

All of my corrections a delivered via email so I get detailed with it. I told him to place the bonding jumper on the hard pipe before the introduction of the CSST. I guess I wasn't detailed enough. It's like a Colorado Electrical Inspector....you have to do it for them.

When the plumber lost his cool this time, I didn't hang around for the insults.

 

[Norcal]

Gimme black iron pipe, I loath CSST. But then don't care for PEX either, nobody has given me a satisfactory answer about rodents & PEX. But both of those materials require less skill & labor to install so that what is used, but will have to acknowledge in a repipe where the existing plumbing has failed PEX is much easier.

 

[fatboy]

"It's like a Colorado Electrical Inspector....you have to do it for them."

Not in my jurisdiction.

 

[SCBO1]

Some black jacketed CSST does not require bonding, like Wardflex, there's probably other black jacked CSST that also does not require bonding. I don't get to worried until I see the yellow jacket CSST with no bonding.

What CSST gas pipe is this?

Also I've been watching for CSST being bent more than 90°, refer to manufactures install directions on what ever brand pipe is being used.

 

[ICE]

Some black jacketed CSST does not require bonding, like Wardflex, there's probably other black jacked CSST that also does not require bonding. I don't get to worried until I see the yellow jacket CSST with no bonding.

What CSST gas pipe is this?

Also I've been watching for CSST being bent more than 90°, refer to manufactures install directions on what ever brand pipe is being used.

I have heard that and I found it in the manufactures literature. I do not recall which company and I paid no attention to the claim. The code requires the bonding jumper.

Close to 100% of the CSST installed is not bonded. I have never encountered CSST that was bonded and I always hear, “Nobody has ever made us do that.”

 

[Mr. Inspector]

We are not allowed to inspect anything to do with propane gas in PA. The installers inspect themselves per law. Had a yellow line put in my house a few years ago. No bonding was done.

Gimme black iron pipe, I loath CSST. But then don't care for PEX either, nobody has given me a satisfactory answer about rodents & PEX. But both of those materials require less skill & labor to install so that what is used, but will have to acknowledge in a repipe where the existing plumbing has failed PEX is much easier.

Do you feel the same with romex vs. conduit?

 

[steveray]

"Black CSST" still has to be bonded, it is just allowed to use the EGC for the equipment it is connected to and requires no additional bonding just like steel pipe. Per install instructions. NFPA 54 is catching up with this now too...

 

[SCBO1]

WARDFlex:
Piping systems incorporating black coated WARDFlex® MAX CSST have no additional bonding requirements imposed by the manufacturer. WARDFlex® MAX may be bonded in accordance with the National Electrical Code NFPA 70 Article 250.104 in the same manner as rigid metallic piping systems. In the event that additional bonding of black coated WARDFlex® MAX is required by local code, the same requirements stated in this section for the direct bonding of yellow coated WARDFlex® shall be followed. It is the responsibility of the trained installer to verify all local code compliance.

2018 IFGC 310.3 Arc-resistant CSST

 

[e hilton]

I had to look it up on their website. Turns out the black coating is conductive.

And ... if you go to wardmfg.com and click on wardflex, they have a nice video about quality control testing.

 

[ICE]

I am never bothered about telling them remove the dirt to expose the pipe. The foam wrap is different. Especially when they did a nice job of it.

 

[ICE]

I had to look it up on their website. Turns out the black coating is conductive.

And ... if you go to wardmfg.com and click on wardflex, they have a nice video about quality control testing.

I went to the installation instructions and found the grounding on page 44. The yellow jacketed tubing has a definite requirement from the manufacturer whereas the black jacketed tubing does not. However it goes on to say that the code will require bonding.

"Piping systems incorporating black coated WARDFlex® MAX CSST have no additional bonding requirements imposed by the manufacturer."

https://www.wardmfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/DesignInstallationGuide_January2019FINAL.pdf

CSST is a real boon for the plumbers...well except for 47 pages of instruction compared to iron pipe and it's....well it's iron pipe and that's about all you need to know.

 

[linnrg]

in the first picture was that the old outside cleanout? Also look at the straps holding the pipe to the form - that would be a good tug on those pipes when removing the forms. Do you look in the top of the 10' pipe to see if there are any leaks because there is no good place to set up a ladder there.

 

[SCBO1]

Torpedo level, I've seen some plumbers use them.

What's that in the lower right corner of the first pic? Is that some cast iron pipe? Abandoned in place?

Testing with water or air?

 

[ICE]

This cabinet was mounted over a hole in the stucco wall with a cluster of Romex through the back. Another inspector wrote the correction disallowing that and I was given the followup inspection. The guy butchered the bottom of the cabinet and tossed in some extra sheetmetal. The white blob is caulk.








This is a sub-panel. The circuit breakers hide the ground bus. I wrote a correction that disallows hiding the ground bus. I asked for a copy of the label that is on the door which should list what breakers are allowed. The contractor and the other inspector think that I am being punitive. Altogether there were 13 corrections. So what do you think about the obscured ground bus? Am I over the top?

 

[tmurray]

The next person to work on this panel certainly won't love them for it.

 

[steveray]

Do they need to be accessible? Or readily accessible?

 

[e hilton]

Not an inspector, however i would: accept the square “washer” on the bottom, ask for a same-gauge sheet metal patch in place of the blob, hold firm onthe hidden ground bus.