Does Anyone Read & Comprehend Anymore?

[Yikes]

My nice versions of a deck submittal, the spiral notebook paper by carpenter pencil is also popular

Back in the 80s when I was an architecture student, my first paid project was for a contractor who had me design a deck+garage addition for his client. I was very meticulous and thorough, 3 pages of 24"x36” plans. I was hoping my thoroughness would be rewarded with an OTC permit. Took it to the county building department and they said initial plan check would take 4 weeks (not including backcheck).

I went back to the contractor and broke the news about a long plan check; he said my plans looked too detailed. He set those aside and instead had me draw a crude single-line sketch on a single sheet of 8.5x11 lined notebook paper, and go back to the building department when other staff were on duty. He had me wear my backpack from high school, pretending like I was the son of the homeowner and was totally ignorant. He said they would do all the work for me, just to avoid a protracted process of-back-and-forth with a naïve kid.

It worked like a charm. The staff had me hand-write their lumber and fastener preferences on the deck plan, and we stapled their standard Type V handout onto the plans. I had permit within the hour.

Simpler times.

 

[ICE]

garage

The only plans that we needed were, where it will be and how big do you want it ... that was not on paper ... subject to change when the wife got wind of what we were doing.

 

[Sifu]

Yes, we are in the process of using https://avolvesoftware.com/solutions/digeplan/
It was supposed to be compatible with BlueBeam. However, it is not. Suppose to go live in January.

They pitched me, I liked what I saw, but I couldn't convince the city. BUT, they assured me it was BB compatible. No matter, though, I have yet to work with anything that is compatible with anything else. I make them work stand-alone. I myself have been called incompatible a time or two.

 

[Yikes]

Agree on all counts, and yes it's getting worse. The one that drives me crazy is the "statement of special inspections" form that we provide to the EOR and/or the applicant. The instructions at the top say:

"This editable electronic form is intended to be modified (delete anything that does not apply) by the design professionals to reflect the specific tests and inspection requirements for this project."

Here in the L.A. area, we do the opposite for inspections required by 1704. The form is required to be filled out by the DPOR, but the boxes are unchecked as a default:
https://www.ladbs.org/docs/default-...report-form-in-form-08.pdf?sfvrsn=9ce8eb53_26
this form is required to be pasted onto the approved plans.

 

[TheCommish]

I have a sign in my office "The quality of your submittal is directly perportional to my confidence in your ability to construct a code compliant project."

 

[Sifu]

I have a sign in my office "The quality of your submittal is directly perportional to my confidence in your ability to construct a code compliant project."

Similar philosophy although I don't have a sign. People ask daily how long the review will take. I tell them it is inversely proportional to the time it took them to create the submittal.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

Similar philosophy although I don't have a sign. People ask daily how long the review will take. I tell them it is inversely proportional to the time it took them to create the submittal.

I might make myself a sign to say that very thing.

The problem is the folks who need to understand that idea the most likely to have no clue what "inversely proportional" means.

Maybe "The more time you spend on a permit application, the less time I am likely to spend reviewing it."

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

They make software for that.

What software, please?

And what does it cost? If it's expensive, I'm sure my town won't spring for it.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Yes, we are in the process of using https://avolvesoftware.com/solutions/digeplan/
It was supposed to be compatible with BlueBeam. However, it is not. Suppose to go live in January.

My department will be adopting DigePlan soon, too. The other guys can hardly wait. I'd prefer to wait a very long time, but I'm a dinosaur.

 

[jar546]

I still ask for paper plans and a PDF and catch flack about it.

Even I would object to that. Really makes no sense.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

The worst is the decks they give us from Lowe's or Home Depot. It's just a plan with no dimensions and a list of materials.

 

[jar546]

The worst is the decks they give us from Lowe's or Home Depot. It's just a plan with no dimensions and a list of materials.

Those are the ones we reject at plan review.

 

[steveray]

Those are the ones we reject at plan review.

Wait until they are not allowed to plan review them in Cali....DeckApp+ here we come....

 

[ICE]

One of the most prolific structural engineers that I have dealt with had the engineering and plans done in China. He would send PDF architectural drawings to a Chinese firm that would perform the engineering and generate PDF plans to match. He would put his stamp on it and submit it to the building department. He was also a general contractor. I had to pay special attention with his projects. He was Chinese and is now deceased. The paperless environment was his for years while still printing the paper plans.

 

[SCBO1]

The worst is the decks they give us from Lowe's or Home Depot. It's just a plan with no dimensions and a list of materials.

I think one of the box stores gives you a plan showing what board you should cut the piece out of?

 

[SCBO1]

Went to a high school football game Saturday, a little grade schooler tried to get in with money. The lady said: "Ohhh no, we can't accept that, you'll have to get a phone and take a picture of that QR code on the wall and pay with a credit card!"

Then I realized I' didn't have my phone on me, had to walk two blocks back to my car and then back to gate and get in line again. Then I heard one of the lady's quip about, the older generation just doesn't get it!

Well some little youngsters don't get either lady!

 

[steveray]

Went to a high school football game Saturday, a little grade schooler tried to get in with money. The lady said: "Ohhh no, we can't accept that, you'll have to get a phone and take a picture of that QR code on the wall and pay with a credit card!"

Then I realized I' didn't have my phone on me, had to walk two blocks back to my car and then back to gate and get in line again. Then I heard one of the lady's quip about, the older generation just doesn't get it!

Well some little youngsters don't get either lady!

Pull out the dollar bill with the "legal tender for all debts public or private" on it?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

That's a football game I wouldn't be able to attend.

 

[TheCommish]

Even I would object to that. Really makes no sense.

SCBO1 said:
I still ask for paper plans and a PDF and catch flack about it.

We get at least 1 set of paper, the IT guy does no like me using red marker on the screen. My plumbing and electrical inspector do not do electronic plan reviews. I find it difficult to look at multiple pages and detailing the big screen, i will make up the plan electronical y and send t them back though.

There is a project in town the build team has all the plan electronic and the detail callouts are hype link from the plan page to the detail drainings.

 

[Yikes]

Went to a high school football game Saturday, a little grade schooler tried to get in with money. The lady said: "Ohhh no, we can't accept that, you'll have to get a phone and take a picture of that QR code on the wall and pay with a credit card!"

Then I realized I' didn't have my phone on me, had to walk two blocks back to my car and then back to gate and get in line again. Then I heard one of the lady's quip about, the older generation just doesn't get it!

Well some little youngsters don't get either lady!

Thread drift: more and more of these POS credit card machines also ask if you want to tip, even for items that required no service beyond the basic retail transaction (such as selling you self-serve coffee or a candy bar at the airport). I'm a good tipper where it relates to actual service provided, but I'm not gonna be pressured into this. I pay with cash.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

So today I have communications that kinda goes like this

"Why won't you give me a permit?"
"Because I still need you to give me the letters of assurance."
"I signed the document stating the footings are OK."
"Yep, but I need general letters of assurance, stating that someone has to be the lead designer. I presume that's you."
"I also gave you the geotechnical analysis."
"Yep. Got that. Still need the letters of assurance, though."
"And I gave you the document stating the footings were OK. So what more do you need?"
"The signed letters of assurance."
"I don't think you;ve given those to me to sign."
"Yeah, I did, back in August, again in September, and again last week when you asked what was needed for me to issue the permit and we had this exact same discussion."

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

^^^ That's par for the course these days.

We recently reviewed -- and rejected -- plans to convert a former restaurant space in a former single-family residence into a nail salon. There were some other issues but a major factor in the rejection was that the IMC requires a dedicated exhaust of 50 cfm per station. The plan (drawn up by an unlicensed picture drawer) had a system that took 50 cfm from each manicure table -- some of which had two stations and some of which had three station. The drawing also didn't show where/how the exhaust terminated outside of the building. That side of the building has essentially a zero setback from the property line, so the exhaust will have to go up to the roof and turn horizontally away from the property line for some distance. We also asked for details on the make-up air for the 900 cfm they would be exhausting directly to the exterior.

This week we received revised plans. The new drawings simply removed all references to the dedicated exhaust system. No other questions responded to. The applicant then sent an e-mail asking when she could pick up her permit.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

The plan (drawn up by an unlicensed picture drawer)

If I knew autocad ... I swear I could make a living. The crap we see on a regular basis here is unbelievable.

Here's a screen shot of the latest "plan" for an attached garage with a bedroom over top. Note the line in the upper right-hand corner about "not to scale." The freaking law (plus common sense) says that y'all gotta file *scale* drawings.
Missing was: wall details, wall/building height, lintel details, insulation, cladding, joists, finish, stairs, stair support, stair footings, trusses, roof slope, roofing material and oh, we're in an area that requires seismic bracing. I had absolutely no clue what they were building.

But *we* are hard to deal with, right?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

To be honest, I would almost rather deal with the chicken scratches on graph paper rather than the genius homeowners who buy a $25 piece of "home design" software and use that to draw up something that they are convinced is just as good as what an architect would have changed them $2,500 to draw up.