Is an Open Stairway Permitted In This Scenario.

[sfdev]

Hello, I hope someone can assist in directing me to the CBC/IBC code that addresses questions arising from the following scenario.

We are converting an industrial building to office in San Francisco, CA. The building is two stories with 15’ ceilings, a mezzanine on the 1st floor, and a basement below grade; each floor is ~1500 s.f. Occupancy load is approximately 16 per floor and 48 total. The building will be sprinklered. The farthest point from the front door (fire exit) to anywhere in the building is less than 100 feet.
My questions relate to fire separation.
1. Does the 1st/2nd floor stairway need to be enclosed? Does “separation” between two floors with a stairway require 1 or 2 doors?
2. The 1st/2nd floor stairway is close to the front door/fire exit. Does there need to be separation between the stairway (e.g. a lobby) and the first floor office area?
3. Does the 1st floor/basement stairway need to be enclosed?
4. If a lobby is required for separation, does the basement have to open into the lobby or can it open into the 1st floor office area?

Thanks in advance.

 

[cda]

welcome,
Give it a day or two for fantastic answers.

Will post a few threads on the subject.

 

[cda]

https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/high-rise-communicating-stair.27145/#post-206502

 

[cda]

https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/connecting-two-levels.25171/#post-195974

 

[cda]

https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/threads/2-story-open-stairs.23119/#post-181868

 

[sfdev]

Hi cda,

Thanks for the welcome and for the threads on the subject. I've read through several--which I've found to be very educational--but haven't been able to extract a definitive answer to my questions. It also seems that there may have been recent changes to the code that apply to my scenario.

It might be worth mentioning a little background: I have approved plans from an architect dated 2018 (that I received with the building when I bought it). However, in general, the plans have inconsistencies and inaccuracies and the architect hasn't been very helpful in answering code questions.

The approved plans call for separation of the stairways from each floor via a common lobby on the 1st floor, which is connected to the front entrance/fire exit. The stairway entrances at the basement level and 2nd floor are enclose with fire-rated doors). I wish to have the (very long) stairway to the 2nd floor open to the 1st floor (with or without the enclosed lobby) for aesthetic purposes, and to have the 1st floor entrance to the basement stairway outside of the lobby (if the lobby is required) because the original plans failed to account for a concrete girder that forced us to move the basement stairway about 12' outside of the proposed lobby. If the basement stairway must open into the lobby, we'd have to make the lobby 12' longer, which amounts to a loss of "functional" office space. Hope this makes sense. Thanks again.

 

[cda]

If you could turn some of the floor plans into links,

Post the links,

It may help, people trying to help you.

Sounds like you may need to hire a code consultant

 

[cda]

Ok one more maybe

sorry I only do two floor questions


https://www.thebuildingcodeforum.co...closed-for-4-stories.22038/page-2#post-179605

 

[sfdev]

This is the current 1st floor FP showing stairways opening into an enclosed lobby.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/desdnmplp4sirzy/Lobby_FP.JPG?dl=0

 

[TheCommish]

The architect should be answering the question and providing you the customer with a design you approve of that is code compliant stamped for submittal and constructed under the RDP supervision

 

[sfdev]

I already mentioned the situation with the original architect, who the previously owner hired and whose plans I “inherited.” He basically wants me to engage his firm for services I do not need, if I want clarity or details on his plans. Thus, I am simply looking for code clarity on the stairway matter. I figured this might be a good place to look based on other threads on the topic. Thanks.

 

[TheCommish]

the above being stated, the question remains who is the registered design professional supervising the project who should be able to guide you through the project? or does SF waive this requirement?

 

[sfdev]

Thank you for your concern. The plans have been submitted by an architect, approved, and the building permit has been issued. I bought the property after the permits were issued and some of the work started. The plans leave a lot to be desired in terms of accuracy and clarity. I am the design lead working with engineers and contractors to complete the project. I think I am qualified to ask code questions on this forum. Based on similar posts on the topic I figured I’d be steered in the right direction.

 

[sfdev]

I guess the answer to your question is: the original architect is the design pro on record—but I’m not working with him because his plans are sloppy and he wants me to engage him for a lot of work I don’t need just to answer questions about the approved plans (I’ve already offered to go hourly). It is what it is. I can manage, just need to get a few code questions addressed.

 

[TheCommish]

can you post a section drawing and are there separate tenant spaces?

 

[ADAguy]

I see a contract issue here, did the arch approve your use of the plans? He was contracted for by the seller, not you. As such he and the seller own them. His duty is to the seller but if he were a good businessman he would want to assist you (or not). His error would have been his responsibility to correct.