jar546
Forum Coordinator
You beat me to the punch on this one.It really sounds like you have been exposed to some poor softwares, or didn't get the training you should have to use them effectively.
You beat me to the punch on this one.It really sounds like you have been exposed to some poor softwares, or didn't get the training you should have to use them effectively.
What size is your jurisdiction? I appreciate that your system has such robust functionality. However: Southern California has more than 100 jurisdictions with LA County being the largest in the nation. What we have is nothing like what you enjoy. And to be honest I must say that writing corrections on a slip has an intimacy that's lacking with "See you on the flip side".It really sounds like you have been exposed to some poor softwares, or didn't get the training you should have to use them effectively.
There is nothing you said you can do with paper that I can't do with digital.
1. There are no records. Not true. They are just digital
2. Contractor track records. I can run a report in seconds showing me what contractors are needing multiple reinspection and what for what type of inspections across every single project in my jurisdiction.
3. Contractor saying stuff is signed off on that isn't. I can see every inspection report in my software. Even ones that got conveniently misplaced.
4. Building official is dishonest? Fire them. They are an issue with any system.
Not only can I pull up the garage this guy is building today, I can pull up the permit information for the home when it was constructed in 1976. Every record I have is digitized.
We still have in-person meetings, pre-app or pre-construction, whichever people request. I am not sure how online permitting would change the in-person interaction without a policy change in the department. That is not a software problem, that is a policy problem.Anecdote #2:
Today I was trying to get an online submittal plan checked on a city here in So Cal. In the past, with physical plans, you could set up an appointment or talk to a real person to walk them through the plans. This time, you can only make comments in specific ways within their system, and you can't talk to them directly.
My problem is that our plan checker keeps looking at the original submittal instead of the backcheck submittal. We keep trying to tell him that he's reading the old file, but even though the new file is sitting there in their system, he's somehow looking at the wrong one, and there's no way to send him a special alert about his mistake.
The frustration is palpable.
Automated digital distribution of plans is only as good as the training that accompanies it. An a super-clean graphical interface can inadvertently make things look more organized than they really are.
Used in the right way, it's a powerful tool; used incorrectly, it efficiently screws things up worse.
Hold on a minute….how does that square with a 100% of the contractors loving it. So There’s 100% with great software loving it and then there’s the 100% without software that tell you why it won’t work….There’s another 100%….those with lousy software. Can you see that all can be correct? Just because it works for you….that is not evidence that it works anywhere else.I can't count the number of times a contractor kept uploading the wrong file thinking it was the new file from the architect and telling us we were looking at the wrong file.
Started as an inspector in 2004 and almost everything was paper. we did have a green screen 1980s file storage database for permits and inspections, input fields were for the most part limited to 50 characters. Inspection requests were taken on 4x8 preprinted yellow pads that we then took out and did our notes on. You had to be careful with them on a windy day. Notes were transferred to permanent paper files, then office staff entered that file into the database. Because of the time lag, we had almost daily calls from the office if we were done at such and such an address because they were closing. Population about 140,000.There has been many responses from plan checkers but nothing from inspectors. How do inspectors like being paperless....and not just plans but also permits,,,,and let's not forget the correction slip that became digital as well?
After I retired from LA County I did a few inspections for a third-party company ...in a few cities. Paperless cities. In one city, all I was given was the address....I didn't even know what the inspection was for. Plans on an IPad is a cruel hoax.
100% of the contractors love it. They can apply for a permit while home drunk sitting in their underwear at 2am on a Sunday morning. They don't have to drive and wait in line just to be told there is a problem with their paperwork and we won't accept it. Some hire permit runners to handle all of their paperwork, some do it themselves. The only complaint from contractors is that they can't lie to their customers anymore and blame delays on the building department. When they make a mistake and upload the wrong document, they can fix the problem with a few clicks of the mouse rather than stop working to drive back to the building department.Hold on a minute….how does that square with a 100% of the contractors loving it. So There’s 100% with great software loving it and then there’s the 100% without software that tell you why it won’t work….There’s another 100%….those with lousy software. Can you see that all can be correct? Just because it works for you….that is not evidence that it works anywhere else.
I'm saying the 2022 version always looks like it is beating the 2004 version. The reality depends on how it is implemented/managed in the building department.No system is perfect, but the 2022 version beats the 2004 version every day of the week.
My thick skin and your brass balls can lead to contentious discourse. That’s a good thing. People need to see that your pie in the sky existence is the exception to the rule.The acceptance of your new avatar speaks volumess to the thickness of your skin. Bravo amico, bravo.
That is more of a statement of incompentant management and/or poor change management that the systems themselves.I'm saying the 2022 version always looks like it is beating the 2004 version. The reality depends on how it is implemented/managed in the building department.
I'm not advocating for staying with paper submittals, I'm advocating for not allowing ourselves to outsource diligence just because the software salesperson claimed it would solve all problems.
Since we are talking local government here, there are rules. Different options are pitched to the municipality by the software companies, referrals are given, trips are taken to see the products in action and talk with current users, there is a bidding process. You kind of make it sound like a snake oil salesman walks into a municipality and promises to fix all their problems. Maybe a little credit to those making decisions is due here.I'm not advocating for staying with paper submittals, I'm advocating for not allowing ourselves to outsource diligence just because the software salesperson claimed it would solve all problems.
Its a matter of looking at the inbox on the computer, not to inbox on the corner of the desk. Things will get lost in either system if not managed well...In the example I gave where a permit technician is out sick for the week, in 2004 you would see plans piling up on someone's desk and know you've got a problem.
In 2022, unless you've got a manager who knows how access the system and read reports, the problem can remain hidden.
I’m not saying the software won’t do what it promised. I’m saying that many of the users have become accustomed to other software in their lives that has been refined to the extent that not much learning is needed, as it will autocorrect suggestions, etc. The software allows us to outsource our diligence. But if you take that same attitude and apply it specialized enterprise software, be prepared for unintended consequences.Since we are talking local government here, there are rules. Different options are pitched to the municipality by the software companies, referrals are given, trips are taken to see the products in action and talk with current users, there is a bidding process. You kind of make it sound like a snake oil salesman walks into a municipality and promises to fix all their problems. Maybe a little credit to those making decisions is due here.
When things go right it's an accident.....when things go wrong....well then you get all of the credit.Maybe a little credit to those making decisions is due here.
You do NOT want me handwriting stuff - especially since my thumb did a dance with a table saw.As I walk the job I write corrections. The corrections can come to me faster than I can write. With the paperless system I am then supposed to write the corrections in the computer. Then send the registered, interested parties an email of the corrections.
At the next inspection the inspector is supposed to find the corrections on an IPad. If the previous inspector is keeping up with the chores they are there....sort of. The building permit has the building corrections and none of the MEP as they are on the respective digital permit files. The extra step and a lazy inspector gets predictable results.
Give me a correction slip. I see it all right there in front of me. There's no dicking around looking for what's not there.
I second this. I had a metric crapton of site notes to make - fire-stop issues on a large two-storey college. I did a series of voice-to-text notes and dagnabbit, the thing actually did a pretty decent job of transcribing everything. Went to the truck, transferred the note to the laptop, edited a few things, and voila - instant report.It is even easier than that. I talk into my phone and it transcribes it for me so I can be more descriptive. I don't type anything then take photos that go directly into the app for the inspection. It is so easy that I could probably teach you to do it.
See ICE? if an old guy like this can benefit from technology so can you!You do NOT want me handwriting stuff - especially since my thumb did a dance with a table saw.
My hand-written notes were notoriously illegible before the mishap, and they didn't improve ... let's just say that.
I second this. I had a metric crapton of site notes to make - fire-stop issues on a large two-storey college. I did a series of voice-to-text notes and dagnabbit, the thing actually did a pretty decent job of transcribing everything. Went to the truck, transferred the note to the laptop, edited a few things, and voila - instant report.
I'm a gen-X spirit in a Boomer-adjacent body.See ICE? if an old guy like this can benefit from technology so can you!