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REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

How about we go back to the Code of Hammurabi?

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then the builder shall be put to death.(Another variant of this is, If the owner's son dies, then the builder's son shall be put to death.)"

Now as a code change proposal we should add the following:

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and the house burns as a result of design or construction the builder shall be set to fire. If a builder builds a house for someone, and the smoke detector fails to alert the occupants the builder shall be asphyxiated."

"If an occupant causes a fire in his house and as a result he dies, he shall be buried."
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

The difference FBG is informed consent. If I hire a builder to erect a structure and it fails from defective design or construction, I did not get what I paid for. If I make an informed decision to add, or not add a sprinkler system, then the consequences should be mine. For example, if I opt to not add a sprinkler system, then I should have no recourse against the builder if a fire results in loss of life or property. Conversely, if I opt to add a sprinkler system and then do not adequately heat the house because I went to Florida for the winter, I should have no recourse against the builder for water damage or resulting mold. If a requirement is in the legally enforcable code, the home buyer has every right to expect that the construction is correct.
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

I wonder if the same type of discussion occured when indoor plumbing first occured....

"Sally, I can't fur the life of me unnerstand why some one would want to place an out house inside where everyone sleeps and eats. Image how bad that'd stink."

"Johnny can fetch a pail a water his legs ain't broke!"

"How you gona dig a well inside of the house?"

"They connect them pipes by heat'n up some that lead. Pull that lead shot out that deer and heat it up oe'r the fire and see how it works."

"Ain't no problem with lead in them pipes! I been using it for my teeth."

"That guy down at the General Store try to sell you anything.... Indoor plumbing just some kind a new fangled idea to get the money out your pocket and make your kid lazy."
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

the Code can't mandate individual behavior.. I smoke outside, not inside.

not in my house.. not in my car.

If/when I can afford to build a house, it will have a sprinkler system. If/when I buy a used home, I won't.

Mandating a fire sprinkler system without requiring on going maintenance is stupid. The occupants will get lulled into a level of confidence that does not really exist. Apartment buildings need an annual test of the system.. so should single family dwellings.

WE (the ICC voting membership) agreed to a reduced level of protection by voting for mandatory sprinkler systems without on going maintenance. We missed the boat.

WE are allowing less passive protection (like in townhouse developments), because of requiring an unmaintained "active" system.

And that's my problem with pushing this thru.

WE didn't consider the added cost to someone on a well (a standby power source, for example). The cost of the generator and ATS is signficant.

WHAT if someone doesn't pay their water bill?

WE agreed to a bad provision in the IRC.

That's been my point all along.. if we are going to put something into the Code.. let's get a system that works.
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

A little clarification Peach.....There are cities where you cannot smoke in a condo that you own. The codes are limiting personal behavior
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

that's a little of a imposition of the government of my personal space, don't you think, Coug?

I choose not to smoke in the house, because I don't like the smell on my clothes... even my doctor didn't know I smoke. (good lungs and heart, I guess).

Same reason I'd never have a wood burning fire place.
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

We are won't to criticize the fire sprinkler industry for the erroneous information in their brainwashing campaigns, here is a brainwashing campaign from another era. My apologies to Uncle Bob with his 9" cathode ray tube computer, but I sized this advertisement large enough to read.

After reading the advertisement, tap the picture to see a video of why doctors smoke Camels.

Good Food and Good Tobacco Go Together Naturally!

 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

Coug Dad said:
A little clarification Peach.....There are cities where you cannot smoke in a condo that you own. The codes are limiting personal behavior
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I see how Condo Docs are code.
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

To Attest the Brainwasing began many years ago:

"In the first Place, as an Ounce of Prevention is worth a Pound of Cure, I would advise 'em to take care how they suffer living Coals in a full Shovel, to be carried out of one Room into another, or up or down Stairs, unless in a Warmingpan shut; for Scraps of Fire may fall into Chinks and make no Appearance until Midnight; when your Stairs being in Flames, you may be forced, (as I once was) to leap out of your Windows, and hazard your Necks to avoid being oven-roasted."

February 4, 1735 issue of The Pennsylvania Gazette, Benjamin Franklin.

"Under Franklin's goading, a group of thirty men came together to form the Union Fire Company on December 7, 1736. Their equipment included "leather buckets, with strong bags and baskets (for packing and transporting goods), which were to be brought to every fire. The blaze battlers met monthly to talk about fire prevention and fire-fighting methods. Homeowner's were mandated to have leather fire-fighting buckets in their houses."

Blame it all on Ben Franklin
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

In just over 100 years society has gone from mandating fire codes which were literally designed to prevent the loss of the city from a conflagration to preventing injury to an individual asleep at home in their own bed, regardless of disability or self imposed impairment.
 
Re: REASONS FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLERS

Brudgers said:


Coug Dad wrote:A little clarification Peach.....There are cities where you cannot smoke in a condo that you own. The codes are limiting personal behavior
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I see how Condo Docs are code.



We have many cities and counties that are adopting municipal ordinances banning smoking in condos, as well as parks, beaches, commercial businesses, and even in public areas 50' away for the doorways of condos and businesses. Codes only become effective when adopted into ordinances or in a few cases now (like California) into statutes. Inspectors really shouldn't say they are enforcing "codes", they should say they are enforcing "ordinances" or "statutes" as the case may be.
 
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When Benjamin Franklin wrote that firefighters were all volunteers.

Therefore, I support the mandate of having a leather firefighting bucket in my home if (a) firefighters return to volunteerism and (b) my taxes decrease accordingly.

So, do we have an agreement?
 
Pack,

I would volunteer if I was not paid since I love the "Service". When the time comes for me to go to the private sector, I will volunteer my services for where ever I land. The leather buckets are another issue.

ConArb,

I'm not that old yet.....RE: Text size?
 
Marshal:

The text size was made large to make it readable in the old software, it became huge in the new software, I did go back and edit it down in the last post, but am not going to go back to all prior posts and reduce it.

 
As much as I hate residential fire sprinklers being required, due process was served and it's now in the 2009 Code... I never said I don't like or appreciate fire fighters (volunteer or paid).

If the electrical system is deemed to be safe, and the occupants use a modicum of common sense (ok.. well, there's THAT) - there shouldn't be house fires.

My biggest problems are these - no requirement to maintain the system (like submitting annual reports to the jurisdiction - like commercial buildings are required to do), and the possibility (which recently happened in this area - albeit in a multi family dwelling), where heads activated that probably shouldn't have and now the building is shut down (leaving people without homes) for at least a month - they say it was an electrical fire.
 
Peach,

albeit in a multi family dwelling), where heads activated that probably shouldn't have and now the building is shut down
Click to expand...
Was it a situation where they activated outside the room of origin or if "electrtical" interior wall, did they activate in areas where the fire spread via horizontal and vertical communication access into individual dwelling units?
 
Thanks ConArb,

I agree with Peaches comment "My biggest problems are these - no requirement to maintain the system (like submitting annual reports to the jurisdiction - like commercial buildings are required to do)"

Unfortunately, because they are not required to be tested and blockage cleared; many people will die and homes destroyed because they will depend on the sprinker systems. It's bad enough that people don't change the batteries in their smoke alarms now; with the sprinklers; they will go shut off the power source and expect the sprinkler system to protect them.

THE MORE YOU ARE "PROTECTED" ; THE MORE BOLD YOU BECOME; AND, THE MORE CHANCES YOU TAKE.

I have spoken to several Fire Marshals and Inspectors; and it doesn't look like Oklahoma is going to require residential sprinklers; when it adopts a State-wide code.

As with many code requirements; I believe the NAHB will come up with "alternatives/option" to skirt around the requirement where it is adopted.

It is good that "where RFSs are installed"; that we have minimum requirements for that installation.

How do you make the letters a bit larger on this forum?

Uncle Bob
 
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I wrote a great response before the BB booted me off (I guess I don't type fast enough).. timed out.. Jeff please address.

My problem with residential fire sprinklers is essentially the same problem I had with hurricane shutters.. once the inspector walks away, there is not on going maintenance or verification that (in the case of shutters/wind borne debris).. that they were in place 5 minutes after the inspector left.

We lull homeowners into a sense of security.. which really means they have an obligation to do their part.. and they don't.. and they won't.
 
FM,

I clicked 'go advanced" and didn't see "font"; maybe it's written too small for me to see. :)

Uncle Bob
 
Uncle Bobby:

In "Go advanced look" in the upper left and you will see a box with "Fonts" in it to choose your font, you can leave that alone if you wish, then go one box right and you'll see "Sizes" hit the drop-down arrow and choose a font size, I chose a Font of Comic Sans MS and a size of 4 for this.

Uncle Bobby:

In "Go advanced look" in the upper left and you will see a box with "Fonts" in it to choose your font, you can leave that alone if you wish, then go one box right and you'll see "Sizes" hit the drop-down arrow and choose a font size, I chose a Font of Arial and a size of 3 for this.

Uncle Bobby:

In "Go advanced look" in the upper left and you will see a box with "Fonts" in it to choose your font, you can leave that alone if you wish, then go one box right and you'll see "Sizes" hit the drop-down arrow and choose a font size, I chose a Font of Tahoma and a size of 3 for this.

Play around with it, this is Fixedsys with a size of 6.
 
Hello, this is cool,

And I found my smilley faces. :p :) :D

Thanks Fellas,

Uncle Bob
 
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