Two doors in a series

[Yikes]

[1] So would it be different if the 3rd door went to a different tenant space?

[2] Would double doors count as two doors in a vestibule? One of the 2 doors in a vestibule is a double door so it would count as 3 doors in a vestibule and then it would not be two doors in a series.

I believe the intent of the code is that a wheelchair user is not compelled to operate 2 doors simultaneously (holding open one door while attempting to open another door). The 48" dimension matches the length of the clear floor space in ADA 305.3.
One solution is to have the "vestibule" so large (wide) that it has other functions as a real room, instead of just being a vestibule. I've recommended a turnaround space.

If door #3 is a secured space not available to all users, then it becomes even more important to either have the 48" between doors or have a larger room with other functions (including turnaround space).

Again, this is just me interpreting code intent and the narrative info from the US Access Board.

 

[steveray]

I may have to submit a code change so I can never be part of this conversation again.....

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I may have to submit a code change so I can never be part of this conversation again.....

I'm sure everyone would appreciate it. Would you put "Two doors in a series" in the definitions or how would you write it?

 

[steveray]

I would try to use the language from ANSI 117 603.2 EX#2 as I think it sort of makes sense......The indiv use complicates it a bit, but I would start there...

Exceptions:
1. Doors to a toilet or bathing room for a single
occupant, accessed only through a private office
and not for common use or public use shall be
permitted to swing into the clear floor space, provided
the swing of the door can be reversed to
comply with Section 603.2.2.
2. Where the room is for individual use and a clear
floor space complying with Section 305.3 is provided
within the room beyond the arc of the door
swing, the door shall not be required to comply
with Section 603.2.2.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

I would try to use the language from ANSI 117 603.2 EX#2 as I think it sort of makes sense......The indiv use complicates it a bit, but I would start there...

Exceptions:
1. Doors to a toilet or bathing room for a single
occupant, accessed only through a private office
and not for common use or public use shall be
permitted to swing into the clear floor space, provided
the swing of the door can be reversed to
comply with Section 603.2.2.
2. Where the room is for individual use and a clear
floor space complying with Section 305.3 is provided
within the room beyond the arc of the door
swing, the door shall not be required to comply
with Section 603.2.2.

I don't think we are talking about doors swinging into plumbing fixture clear spaces in toilet rooms.

 

[steveray]

I would try to use the language from ANSI 117 603.2 EX#2 as I think it sort of makes sense......The indiv use complicates it a bit, but I would start there...

I don't think we are talking about doors swinging into plumbing fixture clear spaces in toilet rooms.

Correct...I was stating that where possible, it makes sense to use existing language as it relates to a similar situations when making code changes as it alleviates confusion...

603.2 is about the user negotiating the door around themselves and the environment....So is the vestibule crap....

 

[tmurray]

I think more than anything, this discussion points to the value of having written intent statements that officials can reference.

 

[ADAguy]

Rule sounds like it is for hallways and not for a room where a clear, unobstructed path is required

unintended consequence of the verbage?