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An average day

Zeke said:
Can't edit
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You mean the drawing? There's the problem. Before cad you thought before drawing a line, especially if ink. Today no one thinks because it's so easy to edit. Unfortunately it looks finished so many forget it needs to be edited.

Honestly, those that worked with hand drawn drawings, who doesn't think the coordination and accuracy hasn't gone to sh!t in most drawing sets?
 
bill1952 said:
Before cad you thought before drawing a line, especially if ink. Today no one thinks because it's so easy to edit. Unfortunately it looks finished so many forget it needs to be edited.
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That's the thing: there are a crapton of tools out there for drawing. USE them!
I even had a plan submitted as an Excel spreadsheet. I kid you not.
Plan was one of the better ones, too.
 
I remember when plans were stinking blueprints.…or the backside of a Denny’s place mat.
 
Inspector Gadget said:
That's the thing: there are a crapton of tools out there for drawing. USE them!
I even had a plan submitted as an Excel spreadsheet. I kid you not.
Plan was one of the better ones, too.
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When I started a set of drawings for a big building - like a high school or a college building - was under or well under 100 sheets. When I retired, 1000 sheet project was not uncommon. Sure didn't help coordination.
 
I thought I had posted about the stairs. I don't see my post so maybe I forgot to hit the button. But WHERE do the stairs go? No foundation plan showing a basement and no 2nd floor plan. That right there is enough to laugh these off.
 
Zeke said:
I thought I had posted about the stairs. I don't see my post so maybe I forgot to hit the button. But WHERE do the stairs go? No foundation plan showing a basement and no 2nd floor plan. That right there is enough to laugh these off.
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Goes to a basement. Of sorts.
I'm still .... engaging ... the client. Unfortunately, the client keeps asking "just tell me what to do, and I will do it."
 
tmurray said:
Hire a qualified professional to produce a suitable set of construction documents.

It's just that easy.
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In my experience it can be easy, but if you live in Los Angeles hiring a sharp pencil will cost 1000's of dollars and you will probably not get approval first time through. You may also wait 6 to 9 months for the process to complete. Now, I've been to some counties in the rural South where this would be a whole lot different including the cost of professional plans. In fact, in many places it may be possible to submit bought plans only adding a plot plan for tax purposes. At worst a soils test would be required.
 
Zeke said:
In my experience it can be easy, but if you live in Los Angeles hiring a sharp pencil will cost 1000's of dollars and you will probably not get approval first time through. You may also wait 6 to 9 months for the process to complete. Now, I've been to some counties in the rural South where this would be a whole lot different including the cost of professional plans. In fact, in many places it may be possible to submit bought plans only adding a plot plan for tax purposes. At worst a soils test would be required.
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In our area, small buildings like houses do not need a registered architect.
Oddly enough, the client just contacted me again, asking more questions I can't answer. I've suggested they either obtain a designer or use some free software tools.

I swear, if I knew autocad or something, I'd think about putting out a shingle as a small building designer. I could certainly do better than 96 per cent of the offerings that pass my desk.
 
You have to be firm and tell the dude that drawings have to be to scale and legible. Plain and simple. It's in his best interest even if he is doing all the work. I think that's the go, no-go deal here. I learned to draw by looking at discarded plans from jobs. Hand the guy a copy of some plans and tell him this is the minimum needed. Point out to him some features like double lines for walls and details shown on the pages.

I used to take the staples out of a roll of plans and separate the foundation, first and second floor pan if there was one and also, if included, a reflected ceiling plan. I would put those on a light table and look to see if the lines, posts and hold downs all jived. Last set I looked at I had nothing to do with the job. I was just visiting with a friend when I saw the plans and did this. He had a post coming up in the middle of a room that originated at the end of a wall below that floor.

I don't know how it got resolved but it was a good testament.
 
I took Rick's comment from a post on swimming pools. I didn't want to drift the thread miles off course.

Rick18071 said:
The permit for the public pool I was talking about does not include the existing fence. The Building Code official which is also my boss told me not to inspect the fence. I showed the owner the Inefficiencies of the fence which is all I can do.
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I have encountered that many times with all sorts of projects. I have been given written reprimands. Somehow it never bothered me. The last time was an insulation inspection where I wrote so many corrections on the framing and meps that meetings were held. The inspector that had approved everything up to the insulation was screaming at me.

I was handed a paper that said that I was ordered to approve the insulation or be charged with insubordination. There were two boxes....one for yes and one for no. I checked the no box and wrote "A thousand times no".

There was the time that office managers told me that I am not allowed to write corrections on top of an inspector's approval....beyond that I was only allowed to inspect for the completion of corrections if I was following behind an inspector... Then they said, and I quote, "You don't have to write every correction that you see."

I don't expect anyone to do as I did. I was not married until near the end of my career. My home and cars were paid for...I had savings...I've never lacked for employment opportunities...and I suppose that I am beyond caring what my coworkers thought of me. I had no expectation of being promoted to management. To be honest, there were only a few people worth managing and I am not an office person. Towards the end the offer came and I turned it down.

Given that the forum members are proficient in inspecting and a cut above the rest, I am curious as to how others handle these situations. I realize that the forum reach is nation wide. We even hear from the frozen North. There are small jurisdictions and huge as well. I know that the state of the industry in Southern California has turned dismal. That is probably true in a lot of large urban areas.

After I retired I was hired by a company that services building departments. I didn't want a regular assignment so I filled in for absent inspectors. I was sent to seven jurisdictions over about four months. Oh my gosh, what a mess they are. I wrote way too many corrections and the work dried up....that and I was usually done by 1:00pm and on my way home for an eight hour day. And I thought ** ****** was bad.
 
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ICE said:
I took Rick's comment from a post on swimming pools. I didn't want to drift the thread miles off course.


I have encountered that many times with all sorts of projects. I have been given written reprimands. Somehow it never phased me. The last time was an insulation inspection where I wrote so many corrections on the framing and meps that meetings were held. The inspector that had approved everything up to the insulation was screaming at me.

I was handed a paper that said that I was ordered to approve the insulation or be charged with insubordination. There were two boxes....one for yes and one for no. I checked the no box and wrote "A thousand times no".
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I read your entire unedited post in the email notification sent to me. I agree with everything you said. Makes you wonder about the private sector of QC.

A LOT of work is done in Long Beach sans permits. It is estimated the 60% of so called ADU's are not permitted much less allowed. An inspector could/would go crazy. I suspect you worked in the best years and got out in time, if not a tad late. Thanks to guys like you.

BTW, I haven't agreed with everything you cited, but 95%. And you were likely correct on the other 5%, but somethings are in a shade of gray. I have been a black as white person most of my life but I've learned to compromise. Not saying that is a perfect way to live. Just a way to live.
 
Zeke said:
It is estimated the 60% of so called ADU's are not permitted much less allowed.
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That's the impetus behind ADU legislation. The garage conversions and subdivided dwellings were flourishing long before ADU became a thing. There is no way to deal with it other than to legalize them.

I would be sent to investigate a garage conversion because someone logded a complaint. Practically every house in the neighborhood had been converted. A notice would be given to obtain a permit to convert back to the original condition. That notice would be ignored. A lien would be recorded against the property for $1,250.00. There would be no attempt to collect and/or force compliance. The lien did not accrue interest, no permits could be issued for anything, upon sale of the property the lien had to be cleared only if there was a lending institution involved...and sometimes not even then.

So that has changed. Now that illegal garage conversion can become a legal ADU. There is grant money to ease the way to becoming a landlord. I for one applaud the effort. What I don't understand is the grant money and all of the paperwork. The system functioned just fine as it was and now?...well now the people living in garages get to pay higher rent.
 
Zeke said:
A LOT of work is done in Long Beach sans permits.
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That makes sense. How many of the inspectors that you know would you invite into your home to inspect anything?

A History of Code Compliance Abuse : Case in Point - Riverwalk Saloon, Lehighton, PA

Years ago, my third-party agency was given a set of plans to convert an apartment house into a bar and restaurant. The plans involved major structural changes and, of course, change of use, so under the IEBC, this is a Level 3 AND Change of Use and Occupancy. The plans submitted were...
www.thebuildingcodeforum.com
 
ICE said:
I took Rick's comment from a post on swimming pools. I didn't want to drift the thread miles off course.


I have encountered that many times with all sorts of projects. I have been given written reprimands. Somehow it never bothered me. The last time was an insulation inspection where I wrote so many corrections on the framing and meps that meetings were held. The inspector that had approved everything up to the insulation was screaming at me.

I was handed a paper that said that I was ordered to approve the insulation or be charged with insubordination. There were two boxes....one for yes and one for no. I checked the no box and wrote "A thousand times no".

There was the time that office managers told me that I am not allowed to write corrections on top of an inspector's approval....beyond that I was only allowed to inspect for the completion of corrections if I was following behind an inspector... Then they said, and I quote, "You don't have to write every correction that you see."

I don't expect anyone to do as I did. I was not married until near the end of my career. My home and cars were paid for...I had savings...I've never lacked for employment opportunities...and I suppose that I am beyond caring what my coworkers thought of me. I had no expectation of being promoted to management. To be honest, there were only a few people worth managing and I am not an office person. Towards the end the offer came and I turned it down.

Given that the forum members are proficient in inspecting and a cut above the rest, I am curious as to how others handle these situations. I realize that the forum reach is nation wide. We even hear from the frozen North. There are small jurisdictions and huge as well. I know that the state of the industry in Southern California has turned dismal. That is probably true in a lot of large urban areas.

After I retired I was hired by a company that services building departments. I didn't want a regular assignment so I filled in for absent inspectors. I was sent to seven jurisdictions over about four months. Oh my gosh, what a mess they are. I wrote way too many corrections and the work dried up....that and I was usually done by 1:00pm and on my way home for an eight hour day. And I thought ** ****** was bad.
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Your post, I think, gets to the crux of the issue. I came form a smaller jurisdiction where we typically saw the same contractors time and time again. The comment "you don't need to write every correction you see" rang true, but probably not the way it was intended in your case. At the start of my career I did one of the first framing inspection ever done in my jurisdiction. I had 3 pages of violations. I walked through everything with the framer, then we repeated the process on a second building, then we repeated it again on a third building.

We couldn't just keep writing the same correction time and time again, this process did not serve our interests, the interest of the contractor, or public interests. We asked ourselves why he wasn't getting it. Why he kept getting the same things wrong on every inspection. Well, we were giving him too much to learn at each inspection. So, we backed it off to just the corrections that were critical. He learned those and we stopped writing the corrections and started writing new ones. About two years later, we didn't need to write any corrections. Now, we prioritized corrections on impact to life safety, and even then, felt relatively safe in limiting our corrections. This guy had framed hundreds of houses, and none had any significant issues. These were more related to building longevity.

In smaller jurisdictions, we can make those kinds of investments in our contractors. Larger jurisdictions, it would require a substantial amount of coordination between inspectors to accomplish the same thing. I'm not sure it could work...
 
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